switch from Jetty to Tomcat
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switch from Jetty to Tomcat
by Marcus Better
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Hash: SHA1 Hi, I noticed that the roadmap [1] for Grails 1.2 contains this item: "Replace Jetty with Tomcat for default container". This surprised me a bit, so I wonder what motivates this switch. Cheers, Marcus [1]http://grails.org/Roadmap -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpDrdsACgkQXjXn6TzcAQkUwACfXHrSxmjb9FWjvYX/SZWZcx5U MYoAoJKUtOgNkvOkqC0D6rl4Ii4XNQ9w =5oc/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, please visit: http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email |
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Re: switch from Jetty to Tomcat
by Robert Fischer
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Tomcat is probably the dominant deployment environment for Grails, an argument can be made that
making the dev and production environments mirror each-other closely is important (search grails-user for Tomcat to see hints at that). I harbor a deep suspicion that this has something to do with it, too: http://www.springsource.com/products/tcserver ~~ Robert. Marcus Better wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > I noticed that the roadmap [1] for Grails 1.2 contains this item: "Replace > Jetty with Tomcat for default container". This surprised me a bit, so I > wonder what motivates this switch. > > Cheers, > > Marcus > > [1]http://grails.org/Roadmap > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkpDrdsACgkQXjXn6TzcAQkUwACfXHrSxmjb9FWjvYX/SZWZcx5U > MYoAoJKUtOgNkvOkqC0D6rl4Ii4XNQ9w > =5oc/ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this list, please visit: > > http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email > > > -- ~~ Robert Fischer, Smokejumper IT Consulting. Enfranchised Mind Blog http://EnfranchisedMind.com/blog Check out my book, "Grails Persistence with GORM and GSQL"! http://www.smokejumperit.com/redirect.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, please visit: http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email |
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Re: switch from Jetty to Tomcat
by Fred Janon
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That's interesting because Google moved from Tomcat to Jetty in GWT, people were complaining about starting time in development with Tomcat. I hope development with 1.2 doesn't get slower.
Fred
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 01:12, Robert Fischer <robert.fischer@...> wrote: Tomcat is probably the dominant deployment environment for Grails, an argument can be made that making the dev and production environments mirror each-other closely is important (search grails-user for Tomcat to see hints at that). |
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Re: switch from Jetty to Tomcat
by Graeme Rocher-3
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On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 1:08 AM, Fred Janon<fjanon@...> wrote:
> That's interesting because Google moved from Tomcat to Jetty in GWT, people > were complaining about starting time in development with Tomcat. I hope > development with 1.2 doesn't get slower. Tomcat 5.x startup time wasn't good, but the Tomcat 6 series has roughly the same or better startup time as Jetty. What Tomcat lacks is the ability to easily embed it. The Tomcat team at S2 are working on correcting that for the next release of Tomcat. Regards, > > Fred > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 01:12, Robert Fischer > <robert.fischer@...> wrote: >> >> Tomcat is probably the dominant deployment environment for Grails, an >> argument can be made that making the dev and production environments mirror >> each-other closely is important (search grails-user for Tomcat to see hints >> at that). >> >> I harbor a deep suspicion that this has something to do with it, too: >> http://www.springsource.com/products/tcserver >> >> ~~ Robert. >> >> Marcus Better wrote: >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I noticed that the roadmap [1] for Grails 1.2 contains this item: >>> "Replace Jetty with Tomcat for default container". This surprised me a bit, >>> so I wonder what motivates this switch. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Marcus >>> >>> [1]http://grails.org/Roadmap >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) >>> >>> iEYEARECAAYFAkpDrdsACgkQXjXn6TzcAQkUwACfXHrSxmjb9FWjvYX/SZWZcx5U >>> MYoAoJKUtOgNkvOkqC0D6rl4Ii4XNQ9w >>> =5oc/ >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit: >>> >>> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> ~~ Robert Fischer, Smokejumper IT Consulting. >> Enfranchised Mind Blog http://EnfranchisedMind.com/blog >> >> Check out my book, "Grails Persistence with GORM and GSQL"! >> http://www.smokejumperit.com/redirect.html >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit: >> >> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email >> >> > > -- Graeme Rocher Head of Grails Development SpringSource - Weapons for the War on Java Complexity http://www.springsource.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, please visit: http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email |
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Re: switch from Jetty to Tomcat
by Marcus Better
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Hash: SHA1 Robert Fischer wrote: > Tomcat is probably the dominant deployment environment for Grails, an > argument can be made that making the dev and production environments > mirror each-other closely is important (search grails-user for Tomcat to > see hints at that). That does not sound too convicing to me, but so far it is the only reason that has been advanced for any possible benefit to Grails users of this switch. > I harbor a deep suspicion that this has something to do with it, too: > http://www.springsource.com/products/tcserver That is a natural conclusion from the information presented so far. The benefit to SpringSource is clear, but the benefit to Grails users is much less clear, as are the technical reasons for this change. Cheers, Marcus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpIrc8ACgkQXjXn6TzcAQlDrQCg9WktoaCJCySSqk7fHbmBKLym qsAAoN6WsnZ0tkackNfeqVtbapnG4V8v =QByY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, please visit: http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email |
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Re: Re: switch from Jetty to Tomcat
by Graeme Rocher-3
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On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Marcus Better<marcus@...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Robert Fischer wrote: >> Tomcat is probably the dominant deployment environment for Grails, an >> argument can be made that making the dev and production environments >> mirror each-other closely is important (search grails-user for Tomcat to >> see hints at that). > > That does not sound too convicing to me, but so far it is the only reason > that has been advanced for any possible benefit to Grails users of this > switch. Its a very sound reason, people often complain about differences between dev and production due to this. You probably don't see it because you're not at the end of the support requests ;-) Anyway folks shouldn't panic, Jetty is not going away. We will still make the Jetty implementation available as a plugin for backwards compatibility and any server product can write their own plugin for Grails. Cheers > >> I harbor a deep suspicion that this has something to do with it, too: >> http://www.springsource.com/products/tcserver > > That is a natural conclusion from the information presented so far. The > benefit to SpringSource is clear, but the benefit to Grails users is much > less clear, as are the technical reasons for this change. > > Cheers, > > Marcus > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkpIrc8ACgkQXjXn6TzcAQlDrQCg9WktoaCJCySSqk7fHbmBKLym > qsAAoN6WsnZ0tkackNfeqVtbapnG4V8v > =QByY > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this list, please visit: > > http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email > > > -- Graeme Rocher Head of Grails Development SpringSource - Weapons for the War on Java Complexity http://www.springsource.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, please visit: http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email |
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Re: Re: switch from Jetty to Tomcat
by Jeff Brown-14
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On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:04 AM, Marcus Better<marcus@...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Robert Fischer wrote: >> Tomcat is probably the dominant deployment environment for Grails, an >> argument can be made that making the dev and production environments >> mirror each-other closely is important (search grails-user for Tomcat to >> see hints at that). > > That does not sound too convicing to me, but so far it is the only reason > that has been advanced for any possible benefit to Grails users of this > switch. > >> I harbor a deep suspicion that this has something to do with it, too: >> http://www.springsource.com/products/tcserver > > That is a natural conclusion from the information presented so far. The > benefit to SpringSource is clear, but the benefit to Grails users is much > less clear, as are the technical reasons for this change. > > Cheers, > > Marcus I don't think I see the downside. Grails developers will have the option to choose which container they want to be used by commands like run-app, a choice they haven't been able to make in the past. If there are going to be choices, something needs to be the default and since more of our users deploy to Tomcat than Jetty, Tomcat seems the sensible default. For anyone who wants to continue using Jetty, they will be able to do that. I don't think anyone is really giving anything up but a lot of folks are getting something that they have wanted. This really should not present a problem for any projects. jb -- Jeff Brown SpringSource http://www.springsource.com/ Autism Strikes 1 in 166 Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure http://www.autismspeaks.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, please visit: http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email |
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Re: Re: switch from Jetty to Tomcat
by Richard Vowles
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I think it is probably best to call a spade a spade here and not disguise it. This is a trade-off because SpringSource purchased G2One and is an up/downside (however you look at it) of the SS commitment to Tomcat. I no-longer have a problem with this, as long as I can use Jetty (I use mor.ph and GAE), I am happy with this tradeoff - and I think everyone else will accept it as well. The key thing to remember is that this is going to be a new, as yet unreleased, embeddable version of Tomcat we are talking about, not the... other one.
But the fact is, no-one will be using this "embedded" version of Tomcat you are talking about when it gets released, it will be a new version and will come with its own problems (which of course will be solvable because so much Tomcat dev is done inside of SS). Everyone will be working with previous releases of Tomcat, for which there is already a Tomcat plugin for those who wish to use it - there appears to be no "problem" to solve for Tomcat - it is clearly about SS having a clearly defined "stack". Furthermore as more and more cloud hosting providers are using Jetty and Jetty was pretty much neck and neck with Tomcat in deployments (in 2007 no less, Netcraft stats), with GAE added to it, I cannot see how the "more Tomcat" argument holds water. Tomcat has a bad reputation for being a difficult server to administer and use in a development sense, but I trust Greame when he says that people will be no worse off with it. I think the concern comes from those who have had to use Tomcat in the past and moved to Jetty just to get away from the pain. With SS on the case, and a Jetty plugin, I think we can all get what we need to continue smooth development and they will smooth out problems quickly. 1.2 is supposed to be stability release as well :-) Richard On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:10 AM, Jeff Brown <jeff@...> wrote:
-- --- Richard Vowles, Talk to me about development in Grails, Groovy, Java and for the Blackberry ph: +64275467747, linkedin, skype:rvowles get 2Gb shared disk space in the cloud - Dropbox, its incredibly useful! - http://tinyurl.com/cmcceh podcast: http://www.illegalargument.com |
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