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theory question
by rosea
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Hi,
A question about minor scales and the chords which belongs to a certain 'step' in the scale. I've learned when major scale: step: I: maj7 II: min7 III: min7 IV: maj7 V: dominant 7 VI: min7 VII: -7 But what when it is a minor scale? For example E minor? Which type of chords belongs to the 7 steps? thanks in advance. \r _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: theory question
by Mark Polesky
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Grammostola Rosea wrote: > I've learned when major scale: > > step: > I: maj7 > II: min7 > III: min7 > IV: maj7 > V: dominant 7 > VI: min7 > VII: -7 > > But what when it is a minor scale? For example E minor? Which type of chords > belongs to the 7 steps? If it's "natural" minor than it's the same series, but starting on the equivalent of degree 6 in the major: i: min7 ii: -7 III: maj7 iv: min7 v: min7 VI: maj7 VII: dom7 Harmonic minor has a raised 7 which changes all odd degrees: i: min/maj7 ii: -7 III: maj7+5 iv: min7 V: dom7 VI: maj7 vii: dim7 As a subtle point, I would always use lower case for minor chords. Hope this helps. - Mark _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: theory question
by Anthony W. Youngman
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In message <894826.55836.qm@...>, Mark Polesky
<markpolesky@...> writes > >Grammostola Rosea wrote: >> I've learned when major scale: >> >> step: >> I: maj7 >> II: min7 >> III: min7 >> IV: maj7 >> V: dominant 7 >> VI: min7 >> VII: -7 >> >> But what when it is a minor scale? For example E minor? Which type of chords >> belongs to the 7 steps? > >If it's "natural" minor than it's the same series, but starting on >the equivalent of degree 6 in the major: > >i: min7 >ii: -7 >III: maj7 >iv: min7 >v: min7 >VI: maj7 >VII: dom7 > > >Harmonic minor has a raised 7 which changes all odd degrees: > >i: min/maj7 >ii: -7 >III: maj7+5 >iv: min7 >V: dom7 >VI: maj7 >vii: dim7 > the 7th can be raised or not. If it's going up to the tonic it's sharpened, and if it's going down, it's not. So in the scale of A (your classic minor) it goes: a b c d e f g# a g f e d c b a Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - anthony@... _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: theory question
by Mark Polesky
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Anthony W. Youngman wrote: > I can't remember what it's called, but there's a third minor > scale where the 7th can be raised or not. If it's going up to the > tonic it's sharpened, and if it's going down, it's not. So in the > scale of A (your classic minor) it goes: > > a b c d e f g# a g f e d c b a The melodic minor. Though the 6th is also raised on the ascent. a b c d e f# g# a g f e d c b a I intentionally omitted it since it's so contextually dependent. But I suppose you could specify it anyway: ascending: i: min/maj7 ii: min7 III: maj7+5 IV: dom7 V: dom7 vi: -7 vii: -7 descending: same as natural minor. - Mark _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: theory question
by rosea
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Mark Polesky wrote:
> Anthony W. Youngman wrote: > >> I can't remember what it's called, but there's a third minor >> scale where the 7th can be raised or not. If it's going up to the >> tonic it's sharpened, and if it's going down, it's not. So in the >> scale of A (your classic minor) it goes: >> >> a b c d e f g# a g f e d c b a >> > > The melodic minor. Though the 6th is also raised on the ascent. > a b c d e f# g# a g f e d c b a > > I intentionally omitted it since it's so contextually dependent. > But I suppose you could specify it anyway: > > ascending: > i: min/maj7 > ii: min7 > III: maj7+5 > IV: dom7 > V: dom7 > vi: -7 > vii: -7 > > descending: > same as natural minor. > > - Mark > I'll try to write a song in Em ;) \r _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: theory question
by Hans Aberg
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On 3 Jul 2009, at 23:57, Grammostola Rosea wrote:
> A question about minor scales and the chords which belongs to a > certain 'step' in the scale. > > I've learned when major scale: > > step: > I: maj7 > II: min7 > III: min7 > IV: maj7 > V: dominant 7 > VI: min7 > VII: -7 > > But what when it is a minor scale? For example E minor? Which type > of chords belongs to the 7 steps? There are two systems in use: The "traditional", using only uppercase Roman numerals, numbering the scale degrees of the intended scale. Hindemith, "Traditional Harmony", uses this system with harmonic minor, in which case for example III denotes an augmented triad. Then there is the "modern" system which uses lower case letter for minor chords and upper case for major chords. The Wiki page says the first is "German" and the second "US", but the former is used in the books by Mehegan, "Jazz Improvisation". So therefore I think the latter perhaps was developed in the US perhaps second half 20th century. Hans _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: theory question
by rosea
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Mark Polesky wrote:
> Grammostola Rosea wrote: > >> I've learned when major scale: >> >> step: >> I: maj7 >> II: min7 >> III: min7 >> IV: maj7 >> V: dominant 7 >> VI: min7 >> VII: -7 >> >> But what when it is a minor scale? For example E minor? Which type of chords >> belongs to the 7 steps? >> > > If it's "natural" minor than it's the same series, but starting on > the equivalent of degree 6 in the major: > > i: min7 > ii: -7 > III: maj7 > iv: min7 > v: min7 > VI: maj7 > VII: dom7 > > > Harmonic minor has a raised 7 which changes all odd degrees: > > i: min/maj7 > ii: -7 > III: maj7+5 > iv: min7 > V: dom7 > VI: maj7 > vii: dim7 > > As a subtle point, I would always use lower case for minor chords. > > Hope this helps. > - Mark > > > > > Is that an major chord with the 7 a half step lower? Or a minor chord? \r _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: theory question
by Tim McNamara
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On Jul 5, 2009, at 6:49 AM, Grammostola Rosea wrote: > Mark Polesky wrote: >> Harmonic minor has a raised 7 which changes all odd degrees: >> >> i: min/maj7 >> ii: -7 >> III: maj7+5 >> iv: min7 >> V: dom7 >> VI: maj7 >> vii: dim7 >> >> As a subtle point, I would always use lower case for minor chords. >> >> Hope this helps. >> - Mark >> >> >> >> > What is an -7 chord? > > Is that an major chord with the 7 a half step lower? Or a minor chord? IIRC the ii of the harmonic minor is a minor7b5 chord. At least in jazz, that is how it is usually played; a ii-V-i in the harmonic minor usually looks like (in C minor) | Dm7b5 G7b9 | Cmin7 | (see "Blue Bossa" for instance). _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: theory question
by David Fedoruk
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On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 1:30 AM, Mark Polesky <markpolesky@...> wrote:
The melodic minor scale smooths out the difficult-to-sing interval of the augmented second found in the harmonic minor scale. where the harmonic minor is full of harmonic possibility absent in the melodic minor form. The harmonic minor has a raised 7th degree in order to make the interval from the leading note (7th degree) to the tonic (the 1st or 8th degree of the scale a semitone. This also enables a minor key to have a regular V - I resolution. without that raised 7th degree, the dominant 7th chord is impossible in the minor key. Try, for arguments sake, having a final cadence in A minor without the raised 7th (it is g#). Without that raise 7th V-I or E7 - a minor doesn't exist, the chord progression would be em7 to a minor. Play ti and see what it sounds like. E7 to a minor makes a far more satisfying close. em7 to a minor sounds almost like ancient modal music. That is bascially why the harmonic minor scale came into use.
The chords that "belong" with degrees of any scale are triads. 4 note chords are chords with an extra third added on top, however by adding that fourth note a dissonant chord is created. That extra not added to the triad makes it a complex chord instead of a simple one. It is the triad that forms the basis of harmony in both classical and jazz harmony. In jazz harmony as in classical harmony, chords can eitehr be harmonically functional in that they imply some movement from one chord to another, or they can be simply there for colour purposes. The non-funtional chords require no resolution. While all the notes of C maj 7th may be in the C major scale, not all of the intervals within that chord are perfect, major or minor (which contain no dissonances). The addition of the b in c major 7th creates dissonace from a completely consonant C major triad. Another way of talking about this is to say that traids are far more stable than 4 note or complex chords. It is from triads that harmony is derived. 4 note chords are derived from 3 note triads. Basically what I am trying to say is that talking about 4 note chords makes understanding harmony several orders more difficult than first coming to terms with the triads from which they are derrived. cheers, davidf P.S. Nothing you have said is factuallly incorrect, its just you're talking about the basics in the most complex way you can. It really is easier to start by understanding the underlying triads than the complex 4 note chords. Begin with the triads built on each degreee of the scale, then move to understanding the iimplications of adding that fourth note.
-- David Fedoruk B.Mus. UBC,1986 Certificate in Internet Systems Administration, UBC, 2003 http://recordjackethistorian.wordpress.com "Music is enough for one's life time, but one life time is not enough for music" Sergei Rachmaninov _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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