Nabble - tur-users

Re: [REQUEST] delete wall.alphacoders-wallpaper-cgi [AUR]

2009-12-19T13:57:35Z

On 12/19/2009 11:51 PM, widomaker2k7@... wrote:
> I maintain over the package, it is useless, it is no longer anything, the
> links are all dead
>
>

fair. deleted

--
Ionut

Re: [REQUEST] delete wall.alphacoders-wallpaper-cgi [AUR]

2009-12-19T13:50:09Z

I maintain over the package, it is useless, it is no longer anything, the
links are all dead

> On 12/19/2009 11:33 PM, widomaker2k7@... wrote:
>> Hi,
>> can you delete this http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=28186
>>
>> thanks in advance,
>> wido
>
> why?

Re: Going to submit my first AUR package dvtm-git

2009-12-19T13:35:47Z

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:41:22AM +0100, garfiield wrote:
> [1] http://git.garfiield.net/?p=pkgbuilds.git;a=tree;f=dvtm-git;h=a72a63e31469809242c0650ff5edd1dfd73657e8;hb=HEAD
> http://git.garfiield.net/?p=pkgbuilds.git;a=snapshot;h=a72a63e31469809242c0650ff5edd1dfd73657e8;sf=tgz
> git://git.garfiield.net/pkgbuilds.git

Since pkgbuilds is a fairly common name for a Git repository I decided
to change the name of my repo to gnpkgbuilds in order to make it a
little bit more personal. The result of this is that the old URLs
(quoted above) do not work any more. However, the package is now in
AUR [1].

Thank you everyone for giving me recommendations and testing my package on
x86_64!

Best regards,
garfiield

--

[1] http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=32992

Re: [REQUEST] delete wall.alphacoders-wallpaper-cgi [AUR]

2009-12-19T13:34:39Z

On 12/19/2009 11:33 PM, widomaker2k7@... wrote:
> Hi,
> can you delete this http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=28186
>
> thanks in advance,
> wido

why?

--
Ionut

[REQUEST] delete wall.alphacoders-wallpaper-cgi [AUR]

2009-12-19T13:32:33Z

Hi,
can you delete this http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=28186

thanks in advance,
wido

Re: perl-rename and prename

2009-12-19T07:19:52Z

Steve Holmes wrote:
> Well and I thought the general naming convention of cpan modules would
> be to prefix them with perl- anyway; isn't that the case? If that is
> so, then perl-rename would make more sense to me.
>
Prefixing is the convention when packaging a library for a
language other than C/C++.
E.G., perl-term-readkey, python-sqlalchemy, ruby-hpricot, et cetera.
perl-rename isn't a library, but it does come from CPAN. It
makes sense to hold onto the perl- prefix.
Considering all of the other comments that I've seen about prename,
it's probably worth deleting.

-- Chris

Re: perl-rename and prename

2009-12-19T06:15:39Z

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Well and I thought the general naming convention of cpan modules would
be to prefix them with perl- anyway; isn't that the case? If that is
so, then perl-rename would make more sense to me.

But then again, I'm sorta new around these parts <smile>.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 04:50:06PM +0100, Sebastian Schwarz wrote:

> On 2009-12-13 at 23:43 -0500, Ranguvar wrote:
> > I'm thinking I should advise the 'perl-rename' maintainer to take over
> > 'prename' with their PKGBUILD, and then delete 'perl-rename', does
> > anyone not agree?
>
> As the maintainer of perl-rename let me defend myself. :)
>
> On 2009-12-15 at 17:11 +0100, Xyne wrote:
> > Are they really the same?
>
> No, they aren't. They are both based on the same script by Larry
> Wall and therefore are quite similar. However (perl-)rename on CPAN
> is more up-to-date and has some additional functionality and command
> line options. From what I can see prename is only distributed with
> Debian's Perl package and doesn't have a CPAN/web presence on its own.
>
> The original maintainer of prename probably chose the name "prename"
> in order to avoid name clashes with /usr/bin/rename from util-linux-ng.
>
> Nevertheless I adopted and updated prename to Debian's newest version.
> But as perl-rename provides all of prename's functionality and more
> and is better maintained I suggest deleting prename. I don't care so
> much about the votes but I for my part prefer the name "perl-rename"
> as it is more unambiguous than "prename". Unfortunately "rename"
> was already taken. :)
>

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Re: Going to submit my first AUR package dvtm-git

2009-12-19T04:06:13Z

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 12:38:21PM +0100, Xavier wrote:
> - your description is just fine, it is indeed more descriptive
> - the git part should already be obvious from package name

Great, I have seen packages that include the git part in the
description and other packages that do not. So I was unsure on how I
would do.

> Looks perfect to me after just reading it.
> Maybe I wouldn't have used a scriptlet just to display this :
> echo "The configuration of dvtm is done by creating a custom"
> echo "config.h and (re)compiling the source code."
>
> I guess I would just put a comment in the pkgbuild. But it's up to
> you, there is not only one way to do things :)

I chose this way since one comment on the dvtm package suggested to
use the dwm style (include the config.h). While checking the abs I
also noted that dwm in [community] uses a scriptlet to display a
similar message, but that is probably because it is in [community] and
not in AUR?

Re: Deletion request - django extensions

2009-12-19T04:03:24Z

> If you check PKGBUILDs, you'll notice that they are exactly that same
> extensions - that same "url" und "source". Just django-extensions' PKGBUILD
> is better and more complex, but django-command-extensions' name is more
> accurate in compare to homesite. In that situations some kind of redirects
> would be useful - one pkgname could be just alias for second and users
> wouldn't have problems.

Yeah, I started to use today this package, and yeah it's duplicated in
this format, and I agree with that django-command-extensions is better
name for this package as you described it.

I think it's worth to delete the other package and if someone would
like to establish a more 'meta-package' then it will be uploaded.

Best Regards,
Laszlo Papp

Re: Going to submit my first AUR package dvtm-git

2009-12-19T03:38:21Z

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:41 AM, garfiield <garfiield@...> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Like the subject says, I am going to submit my first AUR
> package dvtm-git [1]. But before I do that I would like to get some
> questions answered.
>
> Questions:
> Although dvtm [2] in AUR has the description "Dynamic virtual terminal
> manager", I have chosen "Tiling window management for the console" as
> the description of my package. My reason for choosing this description
> is that _I think_ it is more descriptive than just giving the meaning of
> the abbreviation "dvtm" (like the dvtm package does).
>
> * Should I go with my own description of the package or use the same
> description as the dvtm package? (Maybe add some information to inform
> that the source is a Git repository?)
>

- your description is just fine, it is indeed more descriptive
- the git part should already be obvious from package name

> * What other improvements should or can I do to the package?
>

Looks perfect to me after just reading it.
Maybe I wouldn't have used a scriptlet just to display this :
echo "The configuration of dvtm is done by creating a custom"
echo "config.h and (re)compiling the source code."

I guess I would just put a comment in the pkgbuild. But it's up to
you, there is not only one way to do things :)

And another personal opinion : I find packages cumbersome when I have
to change source code a lot :)
But in that case, once you achieved a decent config, it's alright.

Re: Going to submit my first AUR package dvtm-git

2009-12-19T02:53:08Z

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 9:41 PM, garfiield <garfiield@...> wrote:

<snip>

> PS. Does it build on a x86_64 machine? (I have not tested, but since
> dvtm [2] does I assume this one also does.)
>

Built fine on x86_64.

Regards,

Mike

Going to submit my first AUR package dvtm-git

2009-12-19T02:41:22Z

Hello!

Like the subject says, I am going to submit my first AUR
package dvtm-git [1]. But before I do that I would like to get some
questions answered.

Questions:
Although dvtm [2] in AUR has the description "Dynamic virtual terminal
manager", I have chosen "Tiling window management for the console" as
the description of my package. My reason for choosing this description
is that _I think_ it is more descriptive than just giving the meaning of
the abbreviation "dvtm" (like the dvtm package does).

* Should I go with my own description of the package or use the same
description as the dvtm package? (Maybe add some information to inform
that the source is a Git repository?)

* What other improvements should or can I do to the package?

Best regards,
garfiield

PS. Does it build on a x86_64 machine? (I have not tested, but since
dvtm [2] does I assume this one also does.)

--

[1] http://git.garfiield.net/?p=pkgbuilds.git;a=tree;f=dvtm-git;h=a72a63e31469809242c0650ff5edd1dfd73657e8;hb=HEAD
http://git.garfiield.net/?p=pkgbuilds.git;a=snapshot;h=a72a63e31469809242c0650ff5edd1dfd73657e8;sf=tgz
git://git.garfiield.net/pkgbuilds.git
[2] http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=14182

Re: Deletion request - django extensions

2009-12-18T14:00:10Z

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Ranguvar <ranguvar@...> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 16:32, Reqamst <reqamst@...> wrote:
> > There are two packages refering to "Django Command Extensions"[1] in AUR:
> > "django-extensions"[2] and "django-command-extensions"[3]. I think
> > "django-command-extensions" is more accurate.
> >
> > [1] http://code.google.com/p/django-command-extensions/
> > [2] http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=26813
> > [3] http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=30353
>
>
> I'm not so sure.
>
> For one, django-extensions is older and better known.
> For another, the site you linked talks about other extensions than
> Command ones (Database Model Field, Database Model, Admin).
> Are only the Command ones installed by the AUR packages?
>
> Thanks for bringing it to some attention whatever the choice, I/we hate
> dups :)
>
> -- Ranguvar
> [Devin Cofer]
>

If you check PKGBUILDs, you'll notice that they are exactly that same
extensions - that same "url" und "source". Just django-extensions' PKGBUILD
is better and more complex, but django-command-extensions' name is more
accurate in compare to homesite. In that situations some kind of redirects
would be useful - one pkgname could be just alias for second and users
wouldn't have problems.

Re: Deletion request - django extensions

2009-12-18T13:37:02Z

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On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 16:32, Reqamst <reqamst@...> wrote:
> There are two packages refering to "Django Command Extensions"[1] in AUR:
> "django-extensions"[2] and "django-command-extensions"[3]. I think
> "django-command-extensions" is more accurate.
>
> [1] http://code.google.com/p/django-command-extensions/
> [2] http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=26813
> [3] http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=30353

I'm not so sure.

For one, django-extensions is older and better known.
For another, the site you linked talks about other extensions than
Command ones (Database Model Field, Database Model, Admin).
Are only the Command ones installed by the AUR packages?

Thanks for bringing it to some attention whatever the choice, I/we hate dups :)

-- Ranguvar
[Devin Cofer]
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Deletion request - django extensions

2009-12-18T13:32:43Z

There are two packages refering to "Django Command Extensions"[1] in
AUR: "django-extensions"[2] and "django-command-extensions"[3]. I think
"django-command-extensions" is more accurate.

[1] http://code.google.com/p/django-command-extensions/
[2] http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=26813
[3] http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=30353

Re: Delete package "kernel26-wow"

2009-12-18T09:52:52Z

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On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:40:41 +0100
Sven-Hendrik Haase <sh@...> wrote:

> Please delete the now obsolete package "kernel26-wow" to cleanup the
> available kernel26 packages a bit. As you can see from the comments
> the maintainer agrees this package should be deleted.
> Package URL: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=17195
>
> -- Sven-Hendrik

Done, thank you.

- --
Jabber: atsutane@... Blog: http://atsutane.freethoughts.de/
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Delete package "kernel26-wow"

2009-12-18T09:40:41Z

Please delete the now obsolete package "kernel26-wow" to cleanup the
available kernel26 packages a bit. As you can see from the comments the
maintainer agrees this package should be deleted.
Package URL: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=17195

-- Sven-Hendrik

Re: partially inactive

2009-12-18T04:11:42Z

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 06:31, Ronald van Haren <pressh@...> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Coming Monday I'll get the key of my new apartment where I'll be
> living together with my girlfriend. That's all fine and such but
> before I can move our stuff I have to do quite a bit of work in the
> new apartment.
Congrats on the move! :D

partially inactive

2009-12-18T03:31:03Z

Hey guys,

Coming Monday I'll get the key of my new apartment where I'll be
living together with my girlfriend. That's all fine and such but
before I can move our stuff I have to do quite a bit of work in the
new apartment.

This all means that I'll still be around and try to keep up with
package releases (I'll make sure everything is up to date before
Monday) during that period, but I won't be able to quickly respond to
urgent matters or quickly fix bugs. I'll be checking my e-mail
regularly though so I'll be able to ask for help if needed.
Sometime I also have to arrange an internet connection there but I
hope to have this arranged before I move.

I'm not too sure how long this will take but I hope to be living there
in ~1 month. Feel free to fix any of my packages during that period if
you see necessary.

Ronald

Re: Voting for djszapi results

2009-12-18T00:24:17Z

> nothing wrong with that, but i think you did the math and find out if your
> application can pass or not, based on the rejection.

I asked 5 people, if I remember well(sorry if not), and 3 from them
was really busy in these days to sponsor me(my previous sponsor,
Stefan too), and I accepted it because the end of the year is hard at
my company too, and IRL too.
Then I thought I ask you because you saw my contributions,
escpecially in the last 3 Bug Days, when we worked together from
morning to late night :P I accepted your decision too, and I keep it
in respect, it wasn't problem for me, as I said it that time, Ionut.

Best Regards,
Laszlo Papp

Re: Voting for djszapi results

2009-12-17T14:34:58Z

On 12/18/2009 12:25 AM, Laszlo Papp wrote:

>> He asked myself if i wanted to be his sponsor and i rejected the idea and
>> personally i give him a lot of reasons in that day motivating that. i wonder
>> how many TUs he asked until he find Sergej. I think that all that we are
>> active on irc, but is just a guess.
>
> I don't see any problem in searching sponsor, what did I do wrong with it ?
>
> Best Regards,
> Laszlo Papp

nothing wrong with that, but i think you did the math and find out if
your application can pass or not, based on the rejection.
--
Ionut

Re: Voting for djszapi results

2009-12-17T14:25:08Z

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Ionut Biru <biru.ionut@...> wrote:

> On 12/17/2009 11:31 PM, Laszlo Papp wrote:
>
>>
>> If I would do it only for credits then I'd do this work in the
>> business sphere for a lot of money, but I don't do it, because I love
>> it, I love to contributing/developing Archlinux in this wonderful
>> community.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Laszlo Papp
>
> i voted "no" and here are my reasons:
>
> i quoted that part just because, when we spoked, i did asked on why did you
> removed the old contributors from "aurman" and you said that you'll add them
> again. Looking at the package, still you are the only maintainer, even that
> package is adopted, so you like the be credit like Xavier suggested.

FS#15488 - Show the original contributor info of a package

> He asked myself if i wanted to be his sponsor and i rejected the idea and
> personally i give him a lot of reasons in that day motivating that. i wonder
> how many TUs he asked until he find Sergej. I think that all that we are
> active on irc, but is just a guess.

I don't see any problem in searching sponsor, what did I do wrong with it ?

Best Regards,
Laszlo Papp

Re: Voting for djszapi results

2009-12-17T14:23:09Z

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Laszlo Papp <djszapi@...> wrote:

> but I will show some mails from Xavier too:
>
> I saw this patch in frugalware, vmiklos applied it, and I thought it
> will be useful for archers too, and just see the answer from Xavier,
> he called me 'for something', but with it he called 'vmiklos' too
> explicite, who started the arch pacman development much more earlier
> than Xavier, so it's fair :(
> http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/pacman-dev/2009-November/010185.html
>
> Another situation:
> I helped Eric with my answer, Eric figured out the problem, but Xavier
> started to offense me somehow without any neccessarity because Eric
> and me were happy with finding the solution for his problem:
> http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/pacman-dev/2009-November/010014.html
>

After 6 months of trying to work with you, I gave up. These two mails
you quoted are clearly over-reaction. I did have some problems with
the mails/patches you sent, but you did much worse than that before.
These 2 mails *alone* (and without considering the huge amount of
previous crap you did or sent) would not deserve such answers.
But in a complete despair, I hoped I could offend you enough to make
you leave :) It might have even worked.

Anyway, I have nothing to do with the TU vote.
So this discussion ends here as far as I am concerned. You always want
to have the last word ? Here, take it !

Re: Voting for djszapi results

2009-12-17T14:18:37Z

On 12/17/2009 11:31 PM, Laszlo Papp wrote:

>
> If I would do it only for credits then I'd do this work in the
> business sphere for a lot of money, but I don't do it, because I love
> it, I love to contributing/developing Archlinux in this wonderful
> community.
>
> Best Regards,
> Laszlo Papp

i voted "no" and here are my reasons:

i quoted that part just because, when we spoked, i did asked on why did
you removed the old contributors from "aurman" and you said that you'll
add them again. Looking at the package, still you are the only
maintainer, even that package is adopted, so you like the be credit like
Xavier suggested.

He asked myself if i wanted to be his sponsor and i rejected the idea
and personally i give him a lot of reasons in that day motivating that.
i wonder how many TUs he asked until he find Sergej. I think that all
that we are active on irc, but is just a guess.

--
Ionut

Re: Trusted Users, Secret ballots, Openness?

2009-12-17T14:02:46Z

> Note that we used to vote in public until the AUR voting interface
> became available. People still got rejected.
>
> Allan

I didn't know that nor was I suggesting that everyone would just cave
in and vote for fear of conflict and "why didn't you vote for me?"
interrogations. It does make it easier to socially engineer your way
in, which was a matter discussed during the last discussion period. If
you know exactly who didn't vote for you, you can focus your efforts to
convince that person to vote for you next time. Like it or not, it's
not actually that difficult to adapt one's behavior in such a limited
context for such a specific goal.

Do I think this would lead to the end of life as we know it? No, of
course not.

This isn't some melodramatic social networking site either. It's not as
though everyone was telling Laszlo "yeah, I'm gonna vote for you,
you'll definitely get in, no problem, mate" and then suddenly turned
around and voted no with devious, villainous music in the background. I
suspect that the ones that voted no had simply not changed their minds
since the last discussion period and did not feel the need to drudge
them up again in the absense of perceived change.

I do see the potential benefits of open voting and, now knowing that it
used to be, I do not necessarily oppose it. At the same time, once you
reach the point that you can't trust TUs to vote the way you would
expect them to from their public statements (e.g. claiming support
publicly then voting no secretly), I think you have a bigger problem
then the openness of the ballot itself.

I'm going to try to limit my replies to this thread now. Sorry for the
noise.

Xyne

Re: Trusted Users, Secret ballots, Openness?

2009-12-17T13:31:57Z

> 3) AUR2? Where is the implementation?

I see your name there too, but maybe I'm wrong:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AUR_2
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=AUR_2&diff=prev&oldid=50469
http://git.berlios.de/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=aur2;a=summary

> I can't confirm if he did
> something on AUR2 and since my point of view the actually main
> developers of AUR (Loui, Wizzo, Bash, etc) are not involved in that
> development, I know some people were working on AUR2, but seriously
> there is not a release date,

But yes, it will be a release 'soon', Sebastian reached a testing
point with the new generation pkgbuild parser and with the python
bindings for it.

> even nobody have thought when will be
> official this release of AUR, so basicly, he maybe is contributing in
> something that won't be used in a future, so thgis can't count as a
> "contribution"

Huh, It's hard to read because I worked with this project really lot,
and others too, like Sebastian. He's been dealing with it more than 2
years, so I don't think it's fair to say 'this can't count as a
contribution', and Neotuli was active in it too, and I talked more
times with louipc too to change the current AUR even not for this
AUR2.

> and as I said, for anything (comment, code, etc) that
> he have done, said, wrote .. he seems to be waiting for a medal or
> diploma or w/e .. again, is his attitude.

If I would do it only for credits then I'd do this work in the
business sphere for a lot of money, but I don't do it, because I love
it, I love to contributing/developing Archlinux in this wonderful
community.

Best Regards,
Laszlo Papp

Re: Trusted Users, Secret ballots, Openness?

2009-12-17T13:25:14Z

2009/12/17 Angel Velásquez <angvp@...>:
> Well, I am Inactive at this moment sorry if I didn't answer first, by
> the way I am on the office so I shouldn't be writting long emails and
> "wasting time" (since my boss conception).
>
> I proposed a patch to see who voted, and I remember people who dislike
> the idea (BaSh, and others TUs) then, a method to know if a TU it was
> Inactive at the point that he wasn't voting or something, I created
> that patch (Loui pimped and then he applied it).
I reject it time ago, and I still reject this idea. I still think
votes should be secrets.

However, I am agree with Loui when he says: "I cannot trust in someone
who does double cross" but I believe we should consider this idea next
time we see an unexpected vote result. We do not need this now, now I
trust in TUs without know what they voted.

--
Andrea `bash` Scarpino
Arch Linux Developer

Re: Trusted Users, Secret ballots, Openness?

2009-12-17T13:22:06Z

Loui Chang wrote:

> On Thu 17 Dec 2009 20:31 +0100, Xyne wrote:
>>> TU votes were never meant to be secret, it only came about as the
>>> implementation of the voting application. We don't live under a violent
>>> military coup or anything. You should be able to identify with your
>>> thoughts in a free society. The discussion period is there for people to
>>> voice any concerns, if that creates tension - so be it. I hope we aren't
>>> all wimps that can't take a little bit of conflict. I'd like to know
>>> that our Trusted Users are able to voice their opinions and uphold the
>>> Arch Way, etc.
>> That's a nice strawman argument which completely disregards social
>> psychology and the real reason for secret ballots, even if a TU vote
>> means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of the universe. You're
>> also confusing the discussion period with post-electoral discussion,
>> which are two very different things. Invoking others to "uphold the Arch
>> Way" in this context is completely without meaning and seems to be
>> nothing more than a baseless emotional appeal that goes hand-in-hand
>> with the previous strawman argument. I'm actually surprised to see such
>> a crude statement.
>
> I don't know what straw man you're referring to, but when it comes to TUs
> we are no longer regular users who should be hiding behind secret
> ballots. By merit and by votes we are representatives of the Trusted
> Users and of the community.
>
> I was only referring to the discussion period. By all accounts there
> were no problems, so the proposal should have passed. If there were any
> outstanding issues they should have been raised. The people that voted
> 'NO' should not have been silent. The fact that there was no debate
> implies that people were afraid to voice their opinions, or were weary
> of the conversation.
>
> In all honesty though, it's difficult for me to trust someone who cloaks
> their identity and hides their opinions. Perhaps you were offended
> because you cloak your identity. I didn't really consider that, I
> apologize. I mean no personal attack. This is just the way I feel.
>
>> If you really feel that way, change the TU interface to make the voting
>> public and display each TU's vote next to his or her name.
>
> I might look into that, at least for disclosing details for the Trusted
> Users.
>
>> I'll end this here before I suppress the wimp in me and flesh out my
>> reply to Loui's post.
>
> I would definitely be interested in an explanation of the social
> psychology.

Note that we used to vote in public until the AUR voting interface
became available. People still got rejected.

Allan

Re: Trusted Users, Secret ballots, Openness?

2009-12-17T13:06:19Z

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Loui Chang <louipc.ist@...> wrote:

> On Thu 17 Dec 2009 20:31 +0100, Xyne wrote:
>> > TU votes were never meant to be secret, it only came about as the
>> > implementation of the voting application. We don't live under a violent
>> > military coup or anything. You should be able to identify with your
>> > thoughts in a free society. The discussion period is there for people to
>> > voice any concerns, if that creates tension - so be it. I hope we aren't
>> > all wimps that can't take a little bit of conflict. I'd like to know
>> > that our Trusted Users are able to voice their opinions and uphold the
>> > Arch Way, etc.
>>
>> That's a nice strawman argument which completely disregards social
>> psychology and the real reason for secret ballots, even if a TU vote
>> means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of the universe. You're
>> also confusing the discussion period with post-electoral discussion,
>> which are two very different things. Invoking others to "uphold the Arch
>> Way" in this context is completely without meaning and seems to be
>> nothing more than a baseless emotional appeal that goes hand-in-hand
>> with the previous strawman argument. I'm actually surprised to see such
>> a crude statement.
>
> I don't know what straw man you're referring to, but when it comes to TUs
> we are no longer regular users who should be hiding behind secret
> ballots. By merit and by votes we are representatives of the Trusted
> Users and of the community.
>
> I was only referring to the discussion period. By all accounts there
> were no problems, so the proposal should have passed. If there were any
> outstanding issues they should have been raised. The people that voted
> 'NO' should not have been silent. The fact that there was no debate
> implies that people were afraid to voice their opinions, or were weary
> of the conversation.
>
> In all honesty though, it's difficult for me to trust someone who cloaks
> their identity and hides their opinions. Perhaps you were offended
> because you cloak your identity. I didn't really consider that, I
> apologize. I mean no personal attack. This is just the way I feel.
>
>> If you really feel that way, change the TU interface to make the voting
>> public and display each TU's vote next to his or her name.
>
> I might look into that, at least for disclosing details for the Trusted
> Users.
>
>> I'll end this here before I suppress the wimp in me and flesh out my
>> reply to Loui's post.
>
> I would definitely be interested in an explanation of the social
> psychology.
>
>

Well, I am Inactive at this moment sorry if I didn't answer first, by
the way I am on the office so I shouldn't be writting long emails and
"wasting time" (since my boss conception).

I proposed a patch to see who voted, and I remember people who dislike
the idea (BaSh, and others TUs) then, a method to know if a TU it was
Inactive at the point that he wasn't voting or something, I created
that patch (Loui pimped and then he applied it).

Now its obviously that I was one who voted 'no' and it was by several reasons:

1) The guy is annoying, and I don't like his attitude (one thing is a
person who wanna contribute, the way that he do is like .. he just
want to appears in any credits, note: this it's my perception of his
attitude).

2) He tried in a very-short time to re-apply (I know he applied after
three months), but he didn't passed the Discussion period the last
time, he really should be sure to convince the people who voted no,
instead to be desperated to appear in any credits.

3) AUR2? Where is the implementation? I can't confirm if he did
something on AUR2 and since my point of view the actually main
developers of AUR (Loui, Wizzo, Bash, etc) are not involved in that
development, I know some people were working on AUR2, but seriously
there is not a release date, even nobody have thought when will be
official this release of AUR, so basicly, he maybe is contributing in
something that won't be used in a future, so thgis can't count as a
"contribution" and as I said, for anything (comment, code, etc) that
he have done, said, wrote .. he seems to be waiting for a medal or
diploma or w/e .. again, is his attitude.

4) We are full of TU's at this moment (25 according to the Wiki page),
honestly this is the less important reason, because we have many
people away (like me) or doing little contributions (like me again and
the new TUs who are step by step incorporating to the team), IMO we
don't need to have a long list of 300+ TUs doing .. nothing?

So basicly these are my reasons, sorry Laszlo, but you didn't convinced me.

P.S: I don't know if I loss my vote because that bug about lang and
votations, I hope not, else this mail will be very non-sense.

--
Angel Velásquez
angvp @ irc.freenode.net
Arch Linux Trusted User
Linux Counter: #359909
http://www.angvp.com

Re: Voting for djszapi results

2009-12-17T12:49:34Z

> This is not really my business as I am not a TU, and haven't been
> involved with Laszlo on any packaging problems or AUR2 development..
> but as I might be the biggest Laszlo's hater, I might have a word to
> say. Also it could look weird that someone gets rejected twice and no one
> has anything really bad to say, so hopefully I am going to fix that :)

True, you're the only one with whom I couldn't reach a situation
where/when we could clarify any gap among us, I tried it more times
and I didn't find solution for it :((

> However, I have to admit I have big troubles staying calm and mature
> every time I was involved with him. But that's the whole problem.
>
> I could write a book about all the times Laszlo pissed me off.
> Probably 99% of that was about pacman development. But Loui's
> experience with him (probably for AUR) was apparently not much better,
> at least back then :
> http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/aur-general/2009-July/006081.html

It's my previous application, not the current one :)

> By the way, this is not really a bad first impression. Laszlo has been
> active on pacman bug tracker or mailing list between June and
> November. It started quite bad, it became worse and worse, it was
> still very bad at the end.
>
> It would really take me a lot of times to gather all the WTFs, so what
> about the last one in date ?
> I recently got this link :
> http://www.mail-archive.com/frugalware-devel@.../msg05895.html
> And here is my sumup (^W interpretation) :
> - he submits a bunch of minor/trivial pacman patches to frugalware in
> October and November

I sent similar patches for arch pacman too, for which I got very rude
answers sometimes from you, Xavier, but I didn't experience this in
case vmiklos, that's why I liked this contribution too, to tell the
truth. Some patches that were rejected by Xavier in a very rude way,
was applied by vmiklos even if the patch contained some mistakes,
vmiklos tried to be helpful..

> - he spams/offends Miklos about getting push access to the repository
> (just for the record and comparison : in Archlinux world, there are
> several competent long-time contributors, and only Dan has push access
> to the master git repo)

Archlinux != Frugalware, maybe you don't know frugalware(sorry if you
know), but some person has got push rights too with lesser patch
number/contribution, and I explained why it would be good for the
development, maybe you missed it(sorry if not).
At last I accepted vmiklos's viewpoint.

> - he adds himself on top of the second list of authors, for his
> excellent contributions :
> http://www.mail-archive.com/frugalware-devel@.../msg05892.html

You can see two sections there and I'm at the bottom one, where those
contributors take place who had fewer contributions, I can't see any
problem in it, and vmiklos applied it, but maybe you know better the
frugal way than vmiklos :)

> - he wants his name to appear on every manpage, even the ones he has
> nothing to do :
> http://www.mail-archive.com/frugalware-devel@.../msg05902.html
> - after that, he disappears

It was discussed with vmiklos, and I accepted his statement about it,
and everything is ok now, I can't see any problem in it again.

> Note that I count this as one story. I have 20 others to tell about
> what happened in the archlinux/pacman world. But the bug tracker has
> the whole history, and the mailing list archives are all publicly
> available, so no reason I should waste my time more.
> This might be my main problem with him : he's a big time waster. He is
> also "extremely annoying" and " doesn't understand boundaries when it
> comes to communication" , as Loui very correctly observed back then.

It was at my previous application again, not at this one. I spoke with
louipc about it, and he said me (more) positive feedbacks this time,
so maybe it's the past you try to say now, but maybe Louipc will fix
me.

It's not my way, but I will show some mails from Xavier too:

I saw this patch in frugalware, vmiklos applied it, and I thought it
will be useful for archers too, and just see the answer from Xavier,
he called me 'for something', but with it he called 'vmiklos' too
explicite, who started the arch pacman development much more earlier
than Xavier, so it's fair :(
http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/pacman-dev/2009-November/010185.html

Another situation:
I helped Eric with my answer, Eric figured out the problem, but Xavier
started to offense me somehow without any neccessarity because Eric
and me were happy with finding the solution for his problem:
http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/pacman-dev/2009-November/010014.html

There is more, but it's not my way to offense Xavier. Otherwise maybe
he was the person and his attitude why I started another project, AUR2
now, so thank you Xavier, anyway :)

Summary: Yeah, Xavier was right, he is my biggest 'hater' as he said
it, but It would be nice to find the solution for it with him to speak
about these things in peaceful way, as others Tus did it, it would be
really the best because we are active in the same wonderful community,
I hope the best!

Best Regards,
Laszlo Papp

Re: Voting for djszapi results

2009-12-17T12:35:56Z

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Xavier <shiningxc@...> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Daenyth Blank <daenyth+arch@...<daenyth%2Barch@...>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Judging by the level of maturity and calmness shown in this thread, I
> > think he really has improved since last time. For what it's worth, I
> > voted to abstain, as I hadn't had much interaction with him either
> > way. Perhaps next time around I'll change that. I can definitely see
> > progress here.
> >
>
> This is not really my business as I am not a TU, and haven't been
> involved with Laszlo on any packaging problems or AUR2 development..
> but as I might be the biggest Laszlo's hater, I might have a word to
> say. Also it could look weird that someone gets rejected twice and no one
> has anything really bad to say, so hopefully I am going to fix that :)
>
> However, I have to admit I have big troubles staying calm and mature
> every time I was involved with him. But that's the whole problem.
>
> I could write a book about all the times Laszlo pissed me off.
> Probably 99% of that was about pacman development. But Loui's
> experience with him (probably for AUR) was apparently not much better,
> at least back then :
> http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/aur-general/2009-July/006081.html
>
> By the way, this is not really a bad first impression. Laszlo has been
> active on pacman bug tracker or mailing list between June and
> November. It started quite bad, it became worse and worse, it was
> still very bad at the end.
>
> It would really take me a lot of times to gather all the WTFs, so what
> about the last one in date ?
> I recently got this link :
> http://www.mail-archive.com/frugalware-devel@.../msg05895.html
> And here is my sumup (^W interpretation) :
> - he submits a bunch of minor/trivial pacman patches to frugalware in
> October and November
> - he spams/offends Miklos about getting push access to the repository
> (just for the record and comparison : in Archlinux world, there are
> several competent long-time contributors, and only Dan has push access
> to the master git repo)
> - he adds himself on top of the second list of authors, for his
> excellent contributions :
> http://www.mail-archive.com/frugalware-devel@.../msg05892.html
> - he wants his name to appear on every manpage, even the ones he has
> nothing to do :
> http://www.mail-archive.com/frugalware-devel@.../msg05902.html
> - after that, he disappears
>
> Note that I count this as one story. I have 20 others to tell about
> what happened in the archlinux/pacman world. But the bug tracker has
> the whole history, and the mailing list archives are all publicly
> available, so no reason I should waste my time more.
> This might be my main problem with him : he's a big time waster. He is
> also "extremely annoying" and " doesn't understand boundaries when it
> comes to communication" , as Loui very correctly observed back then.
>
> It is still possible that he has only good intentions, and all these
> problems are only caused by a language/cultural gap , or a maturity
> problem. Who knows.
>

A simple search for vim in the aur and look at the PKGBUILD files of the
orphaned pkgs says a lot.
Sorry to jump in.

enderst

Re: Trusted Users, Secret ballots, Openness?

2009-12-17T12:29:26Z

On Thu 17 Dec 2009 20:31 +0100, Xyne wrote:

> > TU votes were never meant to be secret, it only came about as the
> > implementation of the voting application. We don't live under a violent
> > military coup or anything. You should be able to identify with your
> > thoughts in a free society. The discussion period is there for people to
> > voice any concerns, if that creates tension - so be it. I hope we aren't
> > all wimps that can't take a little bit of conflict. I'd like to know
> > that our Trusted Users are able to voice their opinions and uphold the
> > Arch Way, etc.
>
> That's a nice strawman argument which completely disregards social
> psychology and the real reason for secret ballots, even if a TU vote
> means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of the universe. You're
> also confusing the discussion period with post-electoral discussion,
> which are two very different things. Invoking others to "uphold the Arch
> Way" in this context is completely without meaning and seems to be
> nothing more than a baseless emotional appeal that goes hand-in-hand
> with the previous strawman argument. I'm actually surprised to see such
> a crude statement.

I don't know what straw man you're referring to, but when it comes to TUs
we are no longer regular users who should be hiding behind secret
ballots. By merit and by votes we are representatives of the Trusted
Users and of the community.

I was only referring to the discussion period. By all accounts there
were no problems, so the proposal should have passed. If there were any
outstanding issues they should have been raised. The people that voted
'NO' should not have been silent. The fact that there was no debate
implies that people were afraid to voice their opinions, or were weary
of the conversation.

In all honesty though, it's difficult for me to trust someone who cloaks
their identity and hides their opinions. Perhaps you were offended
because you cloak your identity. I didn't really consider that, I
apologize. I mean no personal attack. This is just the way I feel.

> If you really feel that way, change the TU interface to make the voting
> public and display each TU's vote next to his or her name.

I might look into that, at least for disclosing details for the Trusted
Users.

> I'll end this here before I suppress the wimp in me and flesh out my
> reply to Loui's post.

I would definitely be interested in an explanation of the social
psychology.

Re: Please delete capitan

2009-12-17T12:19:57Z

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 15:14, Dany Martineau
<dany.luc.martineau@...> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I own capitan but someone created a similar package named capitan-sevilla.
> As his PKGBUILD seems to be better than mine, please remove capitan.
>
> Thanks!

Done.

I personally would prefer the hyphen in the other package's name to be
an underscore, as hyphens
re usually reserved for spinoffs of other packages (firefox vs
firefox-pgo), but meh, not worth deleting/adding :)

-- Ranguvar
[Devin Cofer]

Please delete capitan

2009-12-17T12:14:52Z

Hi!

I own capitan but someone created a similar package named capitan-sevilla.
As his PKGBUILD seems to be better than mine, please remove capitan.

Thanks!

--

Dany Martineau

Enseignant en mathématiques

École secondaire du Harfang

4e et 5e secondaire

http://danym.org

CSSMI

Re: Voting for djszapi results

2009-12-17T12:00:07Z

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Daenyth Blank <daenyth+arch@...> wrote:
>
> Judging by the level of maturity and calmness shown in this thread, I
> think he really has improved since last time. For what it's worth, I
> voted to abstain, as I hadn't had much interaction with him either
> way. Perhaps next time around I'll change that. I can definitely see
> progress here.
>

This is not really my business as I am not a TU, and haven't been
involved with Laszlo on any packaging problems or AUR2 development..
but as I might be the biggest Laszlo's hater, I might have a word to
say. Also it could look weird that someone gets rejected twice and no one
has anything really bad to say, so hopefully I am going to fix that :)

However, I have to admit I have big troubles staying calm and mature
every time I was involved with him. But that's the whole problem.

I could write a book about all the times Laszlo pissed me off.
Probably 99% of that was about pacman development. But Loui's
experience with him (probably for AUR) was apparently not much better,
at least back then :
http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/aur-general/2009-July/006081.html

By the way, this is not really a bad first impression. Laszlo has been
active on pacman bug tracker or mailing list between June and
November. It started quite bad, it became worse and worse, it was
still very bad at the end.

It would really take me a lot of times to gather all the WTFs, so what
about the last one in date ?
I recently got this link :
http://www.mail-archive.com/frugalware-devel@.../msg05895.html
And here is my sumup (^W interpretation) :
- he submits a bunch of minor/trivial pacman patches to frugalware in
October and November
- he spams/offends Miklos about getting push access to the repository
(just for the record and comparison : in Archlinux world, there are
several competent long-time contributors, and only Dan has push access
to the master git repo)
- he adds himself on top of the second list of authors, for his
excellent contributions :
http://www.mail-archive.com/frugalware-devel@.../msg05892.html
- he wants his name to appear on every manpage, even the ones he has
nothing to do :
http://www.mail-archive.com/frugalware-devel@.../msg05902.html
- after that, he disappears

Note that I count this as one story. I have 20 others to tell about
what happened in the archlinux/pacman world. But the bug tracker has
the whole history, and the mailing list archives are all publicly
available, so no reason I should waste my time more.
This might be my main problem with him : he's a big time waster. He is
also "extremely annoying" and " doesn't understand boundaries when it
comes to communication" , as Loui very correctly observed back then.

It is still possible that he has only good intentions, and all these
problems are only caused by a language/cultural gap , or a maturity
problem. Who knows.