tutorial crashes at 'grokproject Sample'

[Jean Daniel]

Hello,

I am trying to install grok, following the tutorial, inside a
virtualenv with the option --no-sites-packages but I am stuck at the
line 'grokproject Sample'.

1. grokproject 1.0b1 is downloaded from Pypi while 1.0b2 was
announced. Should I work from the SVN?

2. the problem seems to come from pastescript which is required in
version 1.6 while only 1.7 is available. Is there a workaround to make
it work with 1.7 or to downgrade pastescript?


Here are the steps:

maggie:~ jd$ sudo easy_install-2.5  -U virtualenv
Using /Library/Python/2.5/site-packages/virtualenv-1.3.3-py2.5.egg

maggie:~ jd$ virtualenv --no-site-packages virtualgrok

maggie:~ jd$ cd virtualgrok && source bin/activate

(virtualgrok)maggie:virtualgrok jd$ easy_install grokproject
Using /Users/jd/virtualgrok/lib/python2.5/site-packages/grokproject-1.0b1-py2.5.egg

(virtualgrok)maggie:virtualgrok jd$ bin/grokproject Sample

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/jd/virtualgrok/bin/grokproject", line 5, in <module>
    from pkg_resources import load_entry_point
  File "/Users/jd/virtualgrok/lib/python2.5/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.5.egg/pkg_resources.py",
line 2562, in <module>
  File "/Users/jd/virtualgrok/lib/python2.5/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.5.egg/pkg_resources.py",
line 626, in require
  File "/Users/jd/virtualgrok/lib/python2.5/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.5.egg/pkg_resources.py",
line 524, in resolve
pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: PasteScript>=1.6

Cheers,
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[Jan-Wijbrand Kolman-3]

Hello Jean Daniel,

Jean Daniel wrote:
> I am trying to install grok, following the tutorial, inside a
> virtualenv with the option --no-sites-packages but I am stuck at the
> line 'grokproject Sample'.
>
> 1. grokproject 1.0b1 is downloaded from Pypi while 1.0b2 was
> announced. Should I work from the SVN?

Ah, right, the version numbering of grok itself and grokproject do not
necessarily sync up. However, currently it really is confusing as both
version numbers are so close together...

Grokproject 1.0b1 will actually create a project for you based on Grok
1.0b2. For both projects it is the intention to release finals Very Soon
Now.

> 2. the problem seems to come from pastescript which is required in
> version 1.6 while only 1.7 is available. Is there a workaround to make
> it work with 1.7 or to downgrade pastescript?
>
>
> Here are the steps:
>
> maggie:~ jd$ sudo easy_install-2.5  -U virtualenv
> Using /Library/Python/2.5/site-packages/virtualenv-1.3.3-py2.5.egg
>
> maggie:~ jd$ virtualenv --no-site-packages virtualgrok
>
> maggie:~ jd$ cd virtualgrok && source bin/activate
>
> (virtualgrok)maggie:virtualgrok jd$ easy_install grokproject
> Using /Users/jd/virtualgrok/lib/python2.5/site-packages/grokproject-1.0b1-py2.5.egg
>
> (virtualgrok)maggie:virtualgrok jd$ bin/grokproject Sample
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/jd/virtualgrok/bin/grokproject", line 5, in <module>
>     from pkg_resources import load_entry_point
>   File "/Users/jd/virtualgrok/lib/python2.5/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.5.egg/pkg_resources.py",
> line 2562, in <module>
>   File "/Users/jd/virtualgrok/lib/python2.5/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.5.egg/pkg_resources.py",
> line 626, in require
>   File "/Users/jd/virtualgrok/lib/python2.5/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.5.egg/pkg_resources.py",
> line 524, in resolve
> pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: PasteScript>=1.6

Hmm, I couldn't yet reproduce the error following these steps. We'll
need to dig a bit deeper...


regards,
jw

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[Roger Erens-2]

Hi,

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 08:26, Jan-Wijbrand Kolman
<janwijbrand@...> wrote:

> Hello Jean Daniel,
>
> Jean Daniel wrote:
>> I am trying to install grok, following the tutorial, inside a
>> virtualenv with the option --no-sites-packages but I am stuck at the
>> line 'grokproject Sample'.
>>
>> 1. grokproject 1.0b1 is downloaded from Pypi while 1.0b2 was
>> announced. Should I work from the SVN?
>
> Ah, right, the version numbering of grok itself and grokproject do not
> necessarily sync up. However, currently it really is confusing as both
> version numbers are so close together...

Maybe one way out of the confusion is to start using a <year>.<week>
version number for grokproject? That would make the difference between
the two projects much more visible.

Cheers,

Roger

>
> Grokproject 1.0b1 will actually create a project for you based on Grok
> 1.0b2. For both projects it is the intention to release finals Very Soon
> Now.
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[Jean Daniel]

The same steps, on the stable Ubuntu 9.04, yield a problem, the
package python2.5-dev is missing: compilation of zope.security can't
be done.

I think all newbie will fall for this one while all experienced python
developers will never notice the problem. I installed the python2.5
-dev package and it seems better but maybe zope modules other than
zope.security require the Python.h headers too. Now that the Python.h
headers are installed on my system, I can't say easily.

I think this is a bug:

1. either in the tutorial which should be modified to make the user
install the python2.5-dev package (berk),

2. or in grokproject which omit the dependency (can buildout install
python headers?),

3. or in zope.security which seems not to be distributed as a binary,

4. or in Grok's plan which does not support distribution packages.

About 4., I know everyone will not agree and it is a difficult one
indeed. Buildout is good but, at this time, only supports some
application in one language. Administrators integrating not just Web
application but streamlining server appliance are outside the scope as
buildout does not package most of the other tools which can be Varnish
or Postgresql but also Pacemaker, Net-snmp, Gstreamer, shared
libraries or kernel modules.

Nicolas Chauvat does a better job at explaining the problem of
maintaining servers in production :
http://www.logilab.org/blogentry/9860

There is a python policy for debs, Rick Spencer's Quickly templates
handle deb package bootstrapping and Launchpad generates deb
repositories. Since we all have so much free time, we should od just
that.

Anyway, got to go, there is a webserver now saying "serving on
http://127.0.0.1:8080",  I have an exciting tutorial to finish,

Cheers,
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[Martijn Faassen-2]

Jean Daniel wrote:
> The same steps, on the stable Ubuntu 9.04, yield a problem, the
> package python2.5-dev is missing: compilation of zope.security can't
> be done.
>
> I think all newbie will fall for this one while all experienced python
> developers will never notice the problem. I installed the python2.5
> -dev package and it seems better but maybe zope modules other than
> zope.security require the Python.h headers too. Now that the Python.h
> headers are installed on my system, I can't say easily.

It is mentioned in the tutorial (in setting up a virtualenv sidebar and
in the main text). Note it doesn't happen on Windows as there are binary
packages available.

> I think this is a bug:
>
> 1. either in the tutorial which should be modified to make the user
> install the python2.5-dev package (berk),

The tutorial does mention it in several places. I've just expanded the
text in SVN however in the hope more people will notice it.

> 2. or in grokproject which omit the dependency (can buildout install
> python headers?),

Could theoretically be done by having buildout install a whole Python,
but we're not going there.

> 3. or in zope.security which seems not to be distributed as a binary,

We deliberately do not distribute binaries for the Linux and Mac OS X
platforms. These platforms are rather diverse so it's hard to have
binary eggs that work on all platforms (the internal unicode encoding of
Python can be 2 byte and 4 byte, for instance) and it's common for
developers to compile Python packages.

> 4. or in Grok's plan which does not support distribution packages.
>
> About 4., I know everyone will not agree and it is a difficult one
> indeed. Buildout is good but, at this time, only supports some
> application in one language. Administrators integrating not just Web
> application but streamlining server appliance are outside the scope as
> buildout does not package most of the other tools which can be Varnish
> or Postgresql but also Pacemaker, Net-snmp, Gstreamer, shared
> libraries or kernel modules.

(Actually buildout can be used to install a whole ton of things,
including C libraries and Varnish with the right buildout recipes.
Whether this is is a good way to deploy is another question and depends
on the context.)

There is a difference between the packaging and installation needs of
(Python) developers and the needs of operating system users. A developer
needs to be able to independently install the same package for multiple
projects on the same platform, possibly of different versions. An OS
distribution tries to install *one* version of a package and has it
reused for everything installed. There are benefits and drawbacks to
both approaches.

Note that it is also possible, but underdocumented, to create .deb or
.rpm packages from a buildout that package all the Python code needed to
run an application. zc.resourcerelease is generally used to produce such
buildouts.

Splitting up all of Grok's dependencies into *separate* OS packages is a
major task with a lot of unanswered questions. We regularly upgrade to
newer versions of underlying Python libraries in the ZTK. We also need
to maintain projects which depend on earlier versions of ZTK libraries.
I'm not sure how packaging solutions from Linux distributions can be
applied here.

> Nicolas Chauvat does a better job at explaining the problem of
> maintaining servers in production :
> http://www.logilab.org/blogentry/9860

I'm aware of Nicolas's discussion (and have been in personal
communication about it too). Nicolas has a lot of useful things to say.
On the other hand, I also think many of the arguments for using OS
packaging solutions tend to forget about the distinct needs of developers.

I'll also note that buildout is effectively a configuration management
system focused on software developers (instead of OS distribution
maintainers).

> There is a python policy for debs, Rick Spencer's Quickly templates
> handle deb package bootstrapping and Launchpad generates deb
> repositories. Since we all have so much free time, we should od just
> that.

If you have a lot of time of course it'd be very much appreciated if you
investigated this problem more deeply. :)

Regards,

Martijn

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[Martijn Faassen-2]

Hey,

And before I forget: much thanks for your feedback. Do keep it coming!
Even though I happily argue against critical feedback if I disagree,
constructive critical feedback is very important and I welcome more from
you and everyone else. :)

Regards,

Martijn

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