Nabble - w3.org - www-smil

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Re: HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

2009-09-29T05:43:54Z

I just noticed this discussion in the SMIL working group.

There is a bigger issue than just using SMIL as a part of audio/video and that is the possibility of using it more broadly throughout HTML as it is used in SVG.

I refer you to my naïve comments of early 2007 on the subject.

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007JanMar/0492.html

While my posting generated little interest, some in the SVG community expressed belief at the time that the HTMLWG simply didn’t understand SMIL (I even recall one prominent member saying that it was not so much lack of understanding as “hostility”), but perhaps that has changed now that HTML5 seems a little more receptive to SVG than it seemed to be in early 2007. And as the HTML5 folks are fond of saying, it is not the loudness of an idea, it is the merit that matters.

David Dailey

Re: SMIL for Digital Signage

2009-09-23T03:01:28Z

The website A-SMIL.org contains information on SMIL with application in digital signage.

Wikipedia also lists a number of digital signage players supporting SMIL.

Re: XProc and SMIL: Orchestrating Pipelines

2009-09-17T02:52:43Z

Philip,

This sounds very interesting. I'm looking forward to hear more about the potential use cases.

We wanted to include only minimum set of SMIL modules in Timesheet so that it would be easier to implement. Since there was no use case, which required the use of max and min attributes, we did not include MinMaxTiming module in SMIL Timesheets. However, this does not mean that the MinMaxTiming module could not be included in the future versions of SMIL Timesheets if there a new use cases where it is needed.

Yours,

Petri Vuorimaa

Department of Media Technoogy

Helsinki University of Technology

On 17.9.2009, at 11:04, Philip Fennell wrote:

Earlier this week I posted a short article about orchestrating XProc pipeline steps using SMIL Timesheets:

http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/09/xproc-and-smil-orchestrating-p.html

As mentioned in there I’m going to be pulling together some potential uses-cases and illustrating them using SVG and/or SMIL.

I have one question for now, I was wondering why the max and min attributes were missing from the Timesheet spec. The max attribute would seem to be a very useful feature for providing time-outs for processes that might take an unacceptable amount of time.

Regards

Philip Fennell
Consultant, Information & Media
Mark Logic
frank.sanders@...
www.marklogic.com

XProc and SMIL: Orchestrating Pipelines

2009-09-17T01:04:09Z

Earlier this week I posted a short article about orchestrating XProc pipeline steps using SMIL Timesheets:

http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/09/xproc-and-smil-orchestrating-p.html

As mentioned in there I’m going to be pulling together some potential uses-cases and illustrating them using SVG and/or SMIL.

I have one question for now, I was wondering why the max and min attributes were missing from the Timesheet spec. The max attribute would seem to be a very useful feature for providing time-outs for processes that might take an unacceptable amount of time.

Regards

Philip Fennell
Consultant, Information & Media
Mark Logic

frank.sanders@...
www.marklogic.com

Re: HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

2009-08-18T10:56:45Z

On Aug 18, 2009, at 8:11 AM, Michael(tm) Smith wrote:

> Dick Bulterman <Dick.Bulterman@...>, 2009-08-17 08:51 +0200:
> [...]
>> Unfortunately, I'm away from both my office and a computer this
>> week (on a
>> sailboat), so it will take a few days for me to round things out.
>> I'll send
>> off comments at the beginning of the week of 24 August.
>
> The team members of the W3C Interaction domain had a discussion
> about this issue on our weekly call, and I took an action to
> request that it be kept open pending receipt of Dick's review
> comments next week.
>
> Also, it seems that the scope of the discussion about issue-10 has
> expanded to include more than just the question "how similar
> should SMIL and <video> attribute names be?" (the current title of
> the issue). We could open up a new issue with a more broadly
> scoped title, but I'd suggest that rather than doing that, the
> issue be re-titled instead.
>
> Dick, You also might want to consider attending the HTML WG telcon
> on Thursday, August 27 to talk about your review comments.

I'll leave this issue open until Dick has a chance to comment. If his
comments are broader than attribute names, then I agree a new issue
may be more appropriate.

Regards,
Maciej

Re: HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

2009-08-18T08:27:19Z

Michael(tm) Smith wrote:

> Dick Bulterman <Dick.Bulterman@...>, 2009-08-17 08:51 +0200:
> [...]
>> Unfortunately, I'm away from both my office and a computer this week (on a
>> sailboat), so it will take a few days for me to round things out. I'll send
>> off comments at the beginning of the week of 24 August.
>
> The team members of the W3C Interaction domain had a discussion
> about this issue on our weekly call, and I took an action to
> request that it be kept open pending receipt of Dick's review
> comments next week.

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/135

> Also, it seems that the scope of the discussion about issue-10 has
> expanded to include more than just the question "how similar
> should SMIL and <video> attribute names be?" (the current title of
> the issue). We could open up a new issue with a more broadly
> scoped title, but I'd suggest that rather than doing that, the
> issue be re-titled instead.
>
> Dick, You also might want to consider attending the HTML WG telcon
> on Thursday, August 27 to talk about your review comments.
>
> --Mike

- Sam Ruby

Re: HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

2009-08-18T08:11:41Z

Dick Bulterman <Dick.Bulterman@...>, 2009-08-17 08:51 +0200:
[...]
> Unfortunately, I'm away from both my office and a computer this week (on a
> sailboat), so it will take a few days for me to round things out. I'll send
> off comments at the beginning of the week of 24 August.

The team members of the W3C Interaction domain had a discussion
about this issue on our weekly call, and I took an action to
request that it be kept open pending receipt of Dick's review
comments next week.

Also, it seems that the scope of the discussion about issue-10 has
expanded to include more than just the question "how similar
should SMIL and <video> attribute names be?" (the current title of
the issue). We could open up a new issue with a more broadly
scoped title, but I'd suggest that rather than doing that, the
issue be re-titled instead.

Dick, You also might want to consider attending the HTML WG telcon
on Thursday, August 27 to talk about your review comments.

--Mike

--
Michael(tm) Smith
http://people.w3.org/mike/

Re: HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

2009-08-16T23:51:09Z

Hi all,

For some reason, the progress on the list never filtered over to me --
probably my fault. Sorry.

On the HTML5/SMIL integration, it is clear that there are two objectives
from the SMIL team:
- avoid confusion
- encourage interoperability.

Things that do the same things in HTML5 & SMIL should be aligned, and
the differences should be made clear.

Unfortunately, I'm away from both my office and a computer this week (on
a sailboat), so it will take a few days for me to round things out. I'll
send off comments at the beginning of the week of 24 August.

Regards,
Dick Bulterman
co-chair, SYMM

HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

2009-08-15T18:32:05Z

> We had this input from the SYMM WG on December, 2007:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/0219.html

> This linked to a detailed comparison, but there was apparently little
> interest in changing HTML5 <video> to be more like SMIL, since the
> message received no replies and there was no follow-up.

I am explicitly not a video or audio expert, but I went through the
differences list at
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/2007/12/SMIL-AudioVideoControlConcepts.html

The most important differences do seem to have been resolved. (That
draft seems to be primarly discussing a elements with @src, but
without <source> elements.)

The next most important differences seem to be cases where HTML5 has
made an intentional simplification. The SMIL standard has some
additional advantages for a very motivated author, but it does make
senes to defer those enhancements until the next release.

There were also a few naming differences listed. It would be best to
resolve these if possible, but as best I could tell, HTML5 has already
resolved them by just dropping the attribute entirely from this
version; I have no idea whether legacy concerns will prevent the use
of SMIL names if they are re-added in a future HTML version.

-jJ

HTML5 the beginnings of SMIL Timesheets?

2009-08-15T10:33:49Z

Hello,

Is HTML5 laying the groundwork for SMIL Timesheets?

If it includes audio/video elements and fade attributes.

I'd say yes.

HTML5 could have four media elements image, text, audio and video.
That's what SMIL needs.

If HTML5 includes SMIL's fade attributes for audio/video, then the lossy
codecs can be cut and reused (copyright license permitting).

Content producers (everybody) can start treating audio and video files
as reusable media objects.

It had been discussed in public-html that xiph.org's theora video and
vorbis audio where to be used. I asked xiph.org if it was possible to
add a fade in/out to a theora/vorbis file without re-encodeing. The
reply was no. Which makes the fade in the HTML necessary to keep the
quality of the media file.

http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/advocacy/2009-July/001619.html

mp3 files can be cut and faded, without re-encoding.
mp3DirectCut:
http://mpesch3.de1.cc/mp3dc.html

Ogg files only cut:
http://en.flossmanuals.net/TheoraCookbook/CutAFile

If anyone in the SMIL WG concurs, would you let the HTML5 group know.
Their looking for feedback.

Thanks,
Jose

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing: how similar should SMIL and

2009-08-13T16:25:39Z

On Aug 13, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:

> Dan Connolly wrote:
>> Taking silence as assent on this sort of thing is
>> tricky... I'm checking internally with the W3C staff,
>> but one thing I've forgotten to do in some other
>> cases is also check directly with the chairs and WGs.
>
> The real issue is that this (as well as other) issues have sat
> dormant with no forward progress for a long period of time.
>
>> Dick, Eric, would you please
>> (a) acknowledge receipt,
>> (b) let us know whether the SMIL WG is OK with this?
>> If you can't do them both in a few days, please do
>> (a) and estimate when you can do (b).
>
> That's exactly what we need. If this request attracts an owner and
> a schedule to either close the issue or to identify tangible changes
> that need to be taken to HTML5, then the issue will remain open.

I've done a little more research on the technical details, and it
looks like some of the <video> element attributes that were similar in
purpose to SMIL but different in details, have now been removed from
HTML5. In particular the start and end attributes are gone. Comment
from the SMIL WG is of course still welcome, but I believe a great
deal of the overlap and motive for alignment is gone.

Regards,
Maciej

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing: how similar should SMIL and

2009-08-13T15:43:51Z

Dan Connolly wrote:
> Taking silence as assent on this sort of thing is
> tricky... I'm checking internally with the W3C staff,
> but one thing I've forgotten to do in some other
> cases is also check directly with the chairs and WGs.

The real issue is that this (as well as other) issues have sat dormant
with no forward progress for a long period of time.

> Dick, Eric, would you please
> (a) acknowledge receipt,
> (b) let us know whether the SMIL WG is OK with this?
>
> If you can't do them both in a few days, please do
> (a) and estimate when you can do (b).

That's exactly what we need. If this request attracts an owner and a
schedule to either close the issue or to identify tangible changes that
need to be taken to HTML5, then the issue will remain open.

- Sam Ruby

> On Tue, 2009-08-11 at 02:41 -0700, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
>> On Aug 11, 2009, at 2:26 AM, Olivier GENDRIN wrote:
>>
>>> (+cc www-smil)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Maciej Stachowiak<mjs@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/10
>>>>
>>>> Since this issue was raised, there has not been significant
>>>> interest in
>>>> changing the attribute names on <video> and <audio> to match SMIL
>>>> elements.
>>>> I suggest we close this issue. Anyone who wants to make a technical
>>>> case for
>>>> changing one or more of the attributes would remain free to do so.
>>> Did we recieved any advice from the smil team about this ?
>> We had this input from the SYMM WG on December, 2007: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/0219.html
>>
>> This linked to a detailed comparison, but there was apparently little
>> interest in changing HTML5 <video> to be more like SMIL, since the
>> message received no replies and there was no follow-up.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Maciej
>>

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing: how similar should SMIL and

2009-08-13T15:26:39Z

Taking silence as assent on this sort of thing is
tricky... I'm checking internally with the W3C staff,
but one thing I've forgotten to do in some other
cases is also check directly with the chairs and WGs.

Dick, Eric, would you please
(a) acknowledge receipt,
(b) let us know whether the SMIL WG is OK with this?

If you can't do them both in a few days, please do
(a) and estimate when you can do (b).

On Tue, 2009-08-11 at 02:41 -0700, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:

> On Aug 11, 2009, at 2:26 AM, Olivier GENDRIN wrote:
>
> > (+cc www-smil)
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Maciej Stachowiak<mjs@...>
> > wrote:
> >> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/10
> >>
> >> Since this issue was raised, there has not been significant
> >> interest in
> >> changing the attribute names on <video> and <audio> to match SMIL
> >> elements.
> >> I suggest we close this issue. Anyone who wants to make a technical
> >> case for
> >> changing one or more of the attributes would remain free to do so.
> >
> > Did we recieved any advice from the smil team about this ?
>
> We had this input from the SYMM WG on December, 2007: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/0219.html
>
> This linked to a detailed comparison, but there was apparently little
> interest in changing HTML5 <video> to be more like SMIL, since the
> message received no replies and there was no follow-up.
>
> Regards,
> Maciej
>

--
Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
gpg D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541 0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing

2009-08-11T02:41:13Z

On Aug 11, 2009, at 2:26 AM, Olivier GENDRIN wrote:

> (+cc www-smil)
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Maciej Stachowiak<mjs@...>
> wrote:
>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/10
>>
>> Since this issue was raised, there has not been significant
>> interest in
>> changing the attribute names on <video> and <audio> to match SMIL
>> elements.
>> I suggest we close this issue. Anyone who wants to make a technical
>> case for
>> changing one or more of the attributes would remain free to do so.
>
> Did we recieved any advice from the smil team about this ?

We had this input from the SYMM WG on December, 2007: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/0219.html

This linked to a detailed comparison, but there was apparently little
interest in changing HTML5 <video> to be more like SMIL, since the
message received no replies and there was no follow-up.

Regards,
Maciej

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing

2009-08-11T02:26:42Z

(+cc www-smil)

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Maciej Stachowiak<mjs@...> wrote:
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/10
>
> Since this issue was raised, there has not been significant interest in
> changing the attribute names on <video> and <audio> to match SMIL elements.
> I suggest we close this issue. Anyone who wants to make a technical case for
> changing one or more of the attributes would remain free to do so.

Did we recieved any advice from the smil team about this ?

--
Olivier G.
http://identi.ca/lespacedunmatin
http://www.lespacedunmatin.info/blog/

Re: First text then jpg in same region

2009-07-05T13:57:34Z

On 4 jul 2009, at 12:23, fleedi wrote:

> Hey Guys,
>
> i want to insert a html text into a region and then a jpg. It
> doesn't work.
> Anybody knows y?
>
> Pseudocode:
> <region A>
>
> <par
> <text
> <region="region A"
> <src = test.html/>
>
> /par>
>
> Thanks
> Robert

Robert,
either your mailer made a complete mess from your code, or something
else went wrong. The text quoted above is what arrived here, and it's
definitely not SMIL. The bits that are somewhat recognizable also
don't correspond to your text.

To answer the textual question: there should be absolutely no problem
displaying first html and then an image in a region, assuming the SMIL
player you use accepts HTML text. Ambulant does on Mac and Windows,
but not on Linux. For RealPlayer and other SMIL players I don't know.

Here's a bit of code that would do what you want, displaying 5 seconds
of HTML and then 5 seconds of jpeg:
<smil>
<head>
<region id="a" .... />
....
</head>
<body>
<seq>
<text src="test.html" region="a" dur="5s" .../>
<img src="test.jpg" region="a" dur="5s" ... />
</seq>
...
</body>
</smil>
--
Jack Jansen, <Jack.Jansen@...>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack
If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma
Goldman

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

First text then jpg in same region

2009-07-04T03:23:22Z

Hey Guys,

i want to insert a html text into a region and then a jpg. It doesn't work. Anybody knows y?

Pseudocode:
<region A>

<par
<text
<region="region A"
<src = test.html/>

/par>

Thanks
Robert

Smil Fixed screen size image ?

2009-07-03T01:04:53Z

Hi friends,
I am doing a mms project . I am creating a image 113x100 . I am adding in smil file the picture .I want to see same dimension the picture in mms . I create smil like under codes . But picture seem big in mms slide ? How do I solve the problem ? Thanks . its smil code
<smil >
<head>
<layout>
<region id="0.png" />
</layout></head><body>
<par dur="5000ms">
<im g region="0.png" src="0.png" />
</par>
</body>
</smil>

Re: [SMIL30 REC] error in smil.idl

2009-05-22T06:34:13Z

I noticed that it also uses "events::Event" but does not '#include'
"events.idl" either. The file parses fine after adding these two
'#include'-s.

Berend-Jan Wever <berendjanwever@...>
http://skypher.com/SkyLined

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Berend-Jan Wever
<berendjanwever@...> wrote:

> The smil.idl file at:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL3/smil-timing.html#q141
> refers to "dom::DOMString" and "views:: AbstractView". However, it
> only '#include'-s "dom.idl" and not "views.idl". I assume that it
> needs to include both?
>
> Thanks,
> BJ
>
> PS. It would be nice if there was a separate smil.idl file available
> for download, as there are for all other .idl files.
>
> Berend-Jan Wever <berendjanwever@...>
> http://skypher.com/SkyLined
>

[SMIL30 REC] error in smil.idl

2009-05-22T06:25:21Z

The smil.idl file at:
http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL3/smil-timing.html#q141
refers to "dom::DOMString" and "views:: AbstractView". However, it
only '#include'-s "dom.idl" and not "views.idl". I assume that it
needs to include both?

Thanks,
BJ

PS. It would be nice if there was a separate smil.idl file available
for download, as there are for all other .idl files.

Berend-Jan Wever <berendjanwever@...>
http://skypher.com/SkyLined

clipBegin/End don not want to work

2009-05-07T14:59:39Z

Hello

I really need help.
I am trying to get my smil file to be played properly but the clipBegin and clipEnd just do not want to work so it keep playing the whole video.
Can anyone help me?
Here is my little code...

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<smil xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2001/SMIL20/Language">
    <body>
        <video src="http://stream.hpi.uni-potsdam.de:8080/httpfs/Archive/www_ss06/www02.ram" clip-begin="3546770ms" clipBegin="3546770ms" clip-end="3775890ms" clipEnd="3775890ms" />
    </body>
</smil>

thank you for reading

Johannes

RE: SMIL for Digital Signage

2009-04-30T20:16:38Z

Jack and all,

Thank you for the advice.

One more ...

I checked State events.

smil-customTest?

PriorityClass is very difficult to understand for me.

Could you ( or someone ) show me the example of following case? (bus, city, rain, every o’clock)

Your advice is highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Takahiro Fujiwara

From: www-smil-request@... [mailto:www-smil-request@...] On Behalf Of Jack Jansen
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 4:45 AM
To: Takahiro Fujiwara
Cc: www-smil@...
Subject: Re: SMIL for Digital Signage

On 30-Apr-2009, at 18:25 , Takahiro Fujiwara wrote:

Hello all,

I am new to this Mailing list and new to SMIL.

An organization which I joined recently has been considering to implement a playlist for Digital Signage system (e.g. Mobile Signage).

I checked out that there are some playlist formats on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playlist

I think SMIL is one of big candidate for our use.

However I could not find our requirements as follows.

1. Need a non time events. Such as "when Bus stop arrived to 'B'.", "when GPS points to outside of Tokyo.", "beginning of the rain" – these events will be converted to signals.

There are multiple possibilities. But I think the best candidate is SMIL State events (which are new since SMIL 3.0). SMIL State is a way to use variables in SMIL, and you could set up your application so that there is an external agent that modifies state variables based on things like GPS location, or which stop the bus is at. You can then trigger to these to have the SMIL presentation react.

2. Priority e.g.
lowest priority = sequence of "video-a", "video-b", "video-c"
low priority: City changed "video-city", Rain status "video-rain"
middle priority: When time comes every o’clock, show "video-clock-commercial"
top priority: Bus stop changed "video-arrive to the bus stop 'B'.

SMIL has the <PriorityClass> element specifically for this use case. It can be used within an <excl> element to group the alternatives according to priority. Moreover, you can specify whether high-priority events pause the lower priority events they interrupt (allowing them to continue when the high-priority event has completed) or completely replace them.

Please tell me how to do that.

Or tell me whether SMIL is suite for this purpose or not.

Your advice is highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Takahiro Fujiwara

========================================================================

Takahiro Fujiwara, EAST Co., Ltd. Japan

Tel: +81 90 7262 9883 Fax: +81 48 298 1723

[RENEWAL!Schedule] http://tinyurl.com/fujiwat-calendar

------------------------------------------------------------------------

ViceChair of NewsML1-WorkingParty

IPTC (International Press Telecommunication Council)

LiaisonOfficer of SteeringCommittee & XML Evangelist

XML Consortium Japan

Certification Creators of Crossmedia-Expert

JAGAT (Japan Association of Graphic Arts Technology)

========================================================================

Jack Jansen, <Jack.Jansen@...>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack

If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman

Re: SMIL for Digital Signage

2009-04-30T12:45:12Z

On 30-Apr-2009, at 18:25 , Takahiro Fujiwara wrote:

Hello all,
I am new to this Mailing list and new to SMIL.

An organization which I joined recently has been considering to implement a playlist for Digital Signage system (e.g. Mobile Signage).
I checked out that there are some playlist formats on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playlist
I think SMIL is one of big candidate for our use.

However I could not find our requirements as follows.
1. Need a non time events. Such as "when Bus stop arrived to 'B'.", "when GPS points to outside of Tokyo.", "beginning of the rain" – these events will be converted to signals.

2. Priority e.g.
lowest priority = sequence of "video-a", "video-b", "video-c"
low priority: City changed "video-city", Rain status "video-rain"
middle priority: When time comes every o’clock, show "video-clock-commercial"
top priority: Bus stop changed "video-arrive to the bus stop 'B'.

Please tell me how to do that.
Or tell me whether SMIL is suite for this purpose or not.
Your advice is highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Takahiro Fujiwara
========================================================================
Takahiro Fujiwara, EAST Co., Ltd. Japan
Tel: +81 90 7262 9883 Fax: +81 48 298 1723
[RENEWAL!Schedule] http://tinyurl.com/fujiwat-calendar
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ViceChair of NewsML1-WorkingParty
    IPTC (International Press Telecommunication Council)
LiaisonOfficer of SteeringCommittee & XML Evangelist
    XML Consortium Japan
Certification Creators of Crossmedia-Expert
    JAGAT (Japan Association of Graphic Arts Technology)
========================================================================

Jack Jansen, <Jack.Jansen@...>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack

If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman

SMIL for Digital Signage

2009-04-30T09:25:01Z

Hello all,

I am new to this Mailing list and new to SMIL.

An organization which I joined recently has been considering to implement a playlist for Digital Signage system (e.g. Mobile Signage).

I checked out that there are some playlist formats on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playlist

I think SMIL is one of big candidate for our use.

However I could not find our requirements as follows.

1. Need a non time events. Such as "when Bus stop arrived to 'B'.", "when GPS points to outside of Tokyo.", "beginning of the rain" – these events will be converted to signals.

Please tell me how to do that.

Or tell me whether SMIL is suite for this purpose or not.

Your advice is highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Takahiro Fujiwara

========================================================================

Takahiro Fujiwara, EAST Co., Ltd. Japan

Tel: +81 90 7262 9883 Fax: +81 48 298 1723

[RENEWAL!Schedule] http://tinyurl.com/fujiwat-calendar

------------------------------------------------------------------------

ViceChair of NewsML1-WorkingParty

IPTC (International Press Telecommunication Council)

LiaisonOfficer of SteeringCommittee & XML Evangelist

XML Consortium Japan

Certification Creators of Crossmedia-Expert

JAGAT (Japan Association of Graphic Arts Technology)

========================================================================

RE: I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

2009-04-27T01:17:31Z

Petri,

Thank you for the information.

The use case I was thinking about was to use SMIL Timesheets to
orchestrate XProc <http://www.w3.org/TR/xproc/> pipeline steps. I think
that the Timing and Synchronization features of SMIL could be used to
define when steps should be processed (serial or parallel) and how they
might be triggered by other steps. XProc is basically a serial XML
pipeline processor, with the option to implement concurrency but there
is no way to explicitly declare which steps should run concurrently.

Here is an example of how Timesheets might be used to execute three HTTP
requests concurrently and with an 11 second time-out.
Notice that I've suggested the use of an 'xml-timesheet' processing
instruction (similar to xml-stylesheet) because embedding the
smil:timesheet element into an XProc pipeline would cause it to be
processed and an error would be raised if a step of that type hadn't
already been declared.

Regards

Philip Fennell


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<smil:timesheet>
<smil:par>
<smil:item select="#service1" begin="aggregate-terms.begin"
dur="11s"/>
<smil:item select="#service2" begin="aggregate-terms.begin"
dur="11s"/>
<smil:item select="#service3" begin="aggregate-terms.begin"
dur="11s"/>
</smil:par>
</smil:timesheet>

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<?xml-timesheet href="aggregate-terms.smil"?>

<p:declare-step
xmlns:p="http://www.w3.org/ns/xproc"
xmlns:smil="http://www.w3.org/ns/SMIL30"
xmlns:terms="http://example.org/service/terms/"
xmlns:xs="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"
name="TermAggregation">

<p:input port="source"/>
<p:output port="result" sequence="true"/>

<p:declare-step type="terms:get">
<p:input port="source"/>
<p:output port="result" sequence="true"/>

<p:option name="href"/>


</p:declare-step>

<terms:get xml:id="service1" name="OpenCalais"
href="http://opencalais.com/..."/>
<terms:get xml:id="service2" name="MetaCarta"
href="http://www.metacarta.com/..."/>
<terms:get xml:id="service3" name="Yahoo"
href="http://search.yahooapis.com/..."/>

<p:identity name="result-wrapper">
<p:input port="source">
<p:inline>
<terms:group/>
</p:inline>
</p:input>
</p:identity>

<p:insert xml:id="aggregate-terms" match="/terms:group"
position="last-child">
<p:input port="source"/>

<p:input port="insertion">
<p:pipe step="OpenCalais" port="result"/>
<p:pipe step="MetaCarta" port="result"/>
<p:pipe step="Yahoo" port="result"/>
</p:input>
</p:insert>

</p:declare-step>

-----Original Message-----
From: Petri Vuorimaa [mailto:petri.vuorimaa@...]
Sent: 24 April 2009 15:18
To: Philip Fennell
Cc: www-smil@...
Subject: Re: I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

Dear Philip,

Thank you for your email. Currently, the SMIL Timesheets is on hold.
We are waiting for implementations and use cases, before we try to reach
the W3C Recommendation status. We want to see both implementations and
use cases to be sure that the specification meets requirements of both
implementators and developers. Actually, we have already at least three
implementations, and thus we are now focusing more on use cases.
Therefore, it would be very interesting to hear more about your use
case.

Yours,

Petri Vuorimaa
Helsinki University of Technology

On 23.4.2009, at 14:33, Philip Fennell wrote:

> Hello,
>
> The other day I had an idea for an interesting use-case for SMIL
> Timesheets, but before I go shooting my mouth-off about the idea, I
> was wondering what progress is being made with regard to the 'Working
> Draft'.
>
> Any thoughts, feedback or genral comments would be much appreciated as

> I hope to be publishing a blog entry about it at O'Reilly in the next
> couple of days.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Philip Fennell
>
>> XML Developer (The Forge)
>>
>> BBC Future Media & Technology
>> Media Village, 201 Wood Lane London W12 7TP
>> BC4 C4, Broadcast Centre
>>
>> T: 0208 0085318
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/
> This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
> personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless
> specifically stated.
> If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
> Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
> reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
> Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
> Further communication will signify your consent to this.
>
>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.

Re: I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

2009-04-24T08:05:42Z

Hello,

Sure. Here are the implementations that I'm aware of.

http://limsee3.gforge.inria.fr/public-site/timesheets/scheduler.html

http://leunen.d.free.fr/fakesmile/index.html

http://www.tml.tkk.fi/~pv/timesheets/

Petri

On 24.4.2009, at 17:34, Jeff Schiller wrote:

Can you pls provide any links to implementations that are public?

On Apr 24, 2009 9:23 AM, "Petri Vuorimaa" <petri.vuorimaa@...> wrote:

Dear Philip,

Thank you for your email. Currently, the SMIL Timesheets is on hold. We are waiting for implementations and use cases, before we try to reach the W3C Recommendation status. We want to see both implementations and use cases to be sure that the specification meets requirements of both implementators and developers. Actually, we have already at least three implementations, and thus we are now focusing more on use cases. Therefore, it would be very interesting to hear more about your use case.

Yours,

Petri Vuorimaa
Helsinki University of Technology
On 23.4.2009, at 14:33, Philip Fennell wrote: > Hello, > > The other day I had an idea for an int...

Associating timesheets with XML documents

2009-04-24T07:44:54Z

Petri,

> Could you show an example of case, where the timesheet element cannot
be used to reference the Timesheet in XML language.

I have been thinking how one could use Timesheets to provide pipeline
step orchestration for the XML Pipeline Language (XProc). In the case of
an XProc pipeline document, the smil:timesheet element would be
processed as a step which would cause an error if no such step had
already been declared.

Included below is an example, abridged so that you can just concentrate
upon the timing and synchronization parts, that instructs a compliant
XProc processor to execute the three terms:get steps in parallel but
only once the 'aggregate-terms' step has begun. Also note that the three
steps have a duration of 11 seconds so that there is, in effect, a
time-out on the requests. There are other possibilities too for using
time offsets and delays as well as repeats so that pipelines can run
steps periodically and trigger other steps upon completion either
straight away or some time later. You could even programmatically
dispatch events from outside the pipeline that would trigger the active
phases of steps.

I don't think it is as far-fetched as it looks but I'm sure there are
subtleties underneath that are just waiting to rise-up and bite!

Regards

Philip Fennell


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<smil:timesheet>
<smil:par>
<smil:item select="#service1" begin="aggregate-terms.begin"
dur="11s"/>
<smil:item select="#service2" begin="aggregate-terms.begin"
dur="11s"/>
<smil:item select="#service3" begin="aggregate-terms.begin"
dur="11s"/>
</smil:par>
</smil:timesheet>

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<p:declare-step
xmlns:p="http://www.w3.org/ns/xproc"
xmlns:smil="http://www.w3.org/ns/SMIL30"
xmlns:terms="http://example.org/service/terms/"
xmlns:xs="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"
name="TermAggregation">

<?xml-timesheet href="aggregate-terms.smil"?>

<p:input port="source"/>
<p:output port="result" sequence="true"/>

<p:declare-step type="terms:get">
<p:input port="source"/>
<p:output port="result" sequence="true"/>

<p:option name="href"/>


</p:declare-step>

<terms:get xml:id="service1" name="OpenCalais"
href="http://opencalais.com/..."/>
<terms:get xml:id="service2" name="MetaCarta"
href="http://www.metacarta.com/..."/>
<terms:get xml:id="service3" name="Yahoo"
href="http://search.yahooapis.com/..."/>

<p:identity name="result-wrapper">
<p:input port="source">
<p:inline>
<terms:group/>
</p:inline>
</p:input>
</p:identity>

<p:insert xml:id="aggregate-terms" match="/terms:group"
position="last-child">
<p:input port="source"/>

<p:input port="insertion">
<p:pipe step="OpenCalais" port="result"/>
<p:pipe step="MetaCarta" port="result"/>
<p:pipe step="Yahoo" port="result"/>
</p:input>
</p:insert>

</p:declare-step>

-----Original Message-----
From: Petri Vuorimaa [mailto:petri.vuorimaa@...]
Sent: 24 April 2009 15:18
To: Philip Fennell
Cc: www-smil@...
Subject: Re: Associating timesheets with XML documents

Hello,

I suppose that it would be possible to define a xml-stylesheet kind of
referencing using, e.g., xml-timesheet reference. However, the Timesheet
language already has the timesheet element and its src attribute to do
this. The link element example is given in the specification to show how
timesheet can be referenced in non-XML languages. Could you show an
example of case, where the timesheet element cannot be used to reference
the Timesheet in XML language. If there is a clear need to provide other
ways to reference external Timesheets documents in XML languages, we
could document it in the future versions of Timesheets language.

Yours,

Petri Vuorimaa
Helsinki University of Technology

On 23.4.2009, at 14:45, Philip Fennell wrote:

>> From the SMIL Timesheets spec. the examples show either embedding the
> timesheet in a document head or using existing link elements:
>
> <link href="timesheet.smil" rel="timesheet"
> type="application/smil+xml">
>
> For those XML document types that don't have link elements for this
> purpose, is there a case for creating a processing instruction like
> the one already used by stylesheets:
>
> <?xml-stylesheet href="mystyle.css" type="text/css"?>
>
> that would take the following form:
>
> <?xml-timesheet href="timesheet.smil" type="application/smil+xml"?>
>
> Having searched the spec and the www-smil mail archives I see no
> examples of this already suggested.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Philip Fennell
>
>> XML Developer (The Forge)
>>
>> BBC Future Media & Technology
>> Media Village, 201 Wood Lane London W12 7TP
>> BC4 C4, Broadcast Centre
>>
>> T: 0208 0085318
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/
> This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
> personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically
> stated.
> If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
> Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
> reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
> Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
> Further communication will signify your consent to this.
>
>

Re: I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

2009-04-24T07:34:43Z

Can you pls provide any links to implementations that are public?

On Apr 24, 2009 9:23 AM, "Petri Vuorimaa" <petri.vuorimaa@...> wrote:

Dear Philip,

Thank you for your email. Currently, the SMIL Timesheets is on hold. We are waiting for implementations and use cases, before we try to reach the W3C Recommendation status. We want to see both implementations and use cases to be sure that the specification meets requirements of both implementators and developers. Actually, we have already at least three implementations, and thus we are now focusing more on use cases. Therefore, it would be very interesting to hear more about your use case.

Yours,

Petri Vuorimaa
Helsinki University of Technology
On 23.4.2009, at 14:33, Philip Fennell wrote: > Hello, > > The other day I had an idea for an int...

Re: I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

2009-04-24T07:17:55Z

Dear Philip,

Thank you for your email. Currently, the SMIL Timesheets is on hold.
We are waiting for implementations and use cases, before we try to
reach the W3C Recommendation status. We want to see both
implementations and use cases to be sure that the specification meets
requirements of both implementators and developers. Actually, we have
already at least three implementations, and thus we are now focusing
more on use cases. Therefore, it would be very interesting to hear
more about your use case.

Yours,

Petri Vuorimaa
Helsinki University of Technology

On 23.4.2009, at 14:33, Philip Fennell wrote:

> Hello,
>
> The other day I had an idea for an interesting use-case for SMIL
> Timesheets, but before I go shooting my mouth-off about the idea, I
> was
> wondering what progress is being made with regard to the 'Working
> Draft'.
>
> Any thoughts, feedback or genral comments would be much appreciated
> as I
> hope to be publishing a blog entry about it at O'Reilly in the next
> couple of days.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Philip Fennell
>
>> XML Developer (The Forge)
>>
>> BBC Future Media & Technology
>> Media Village, 201 Wood Lane London W12 7TP
>> BC4 C4, Broadcast Centre
>>
>> T: 0208 0085318
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/
> This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
> personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless
> specifically stated.
> If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
> Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
> reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
> Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
> Further communication will signify your consent to this.
>
>

Re: Associating timesheets with XML documents

2009-04-24T07:17:40Z

Hello,

I suppose that it would be possible to define a xml-stylesheet kind of
referencing using, e.g., xml-timesheet reference. However, the
Timesheet language already has the timesheet element and its src
attribute to do this. The link element example is given in the
specification to show how timesheet can be referenced in non-XML
languages. Could you show an example of case, where the timesheet
element cannot be used to reference the Timesheet in XML language. If
there is a clear need to provide other ways to reference external
Timesheets documents in XML languages, we could document it in the
future versions of Timesheets language.

Yours,

Petri Vuorimaa
Helsinki University of Technology

On 23.4.2009, at 14:45, Philip Fennell wrote:

>> From the SMIL Timesheets spec. the examples show either embedding the
> timesheet in a document head or using existing link elements:
>
> <link href="timesheet.smil" rel="timesheet"
> type="application/smil+xml">
>
> For those XML document types that don't have link elements for this
> purpose, is there a case for creating a processing instruction like
> the
> one already used by stylesheets:
>
> <?xml-stylesheet href="mystyle.css" type="text/css"?>
>
> that would take the following form:
>
> <?xml-timesheet href="timesheet.smil" type="application/smil+xml"?>
>
> Having searched the spec and the www-smil mail archives I see no
> examples of this already suggested.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Philip Fennell
>
>> XML Developer (The Forge)
>>
>> BBC Future Media & Technology
>> Media Village, 201 Wood Lane London W12 7TP
>> BC4 C4, Broadcast Centre
>>
>> T: 0208 0085318
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/
> This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
> personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless
> specifically stated.
> If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
> Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
> reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
> Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
> Further communication will signify your consent to this.
>
>

Re: Associating timesheets with XML documents

2009-04-23T05:11:29Z

2009/4/23 Philip Fennell <Philip.Fennell@...>:

Personally, I would prefer just
<?xml-stylesheet href="timesheet.smil" type="application/smil+xml" ?>

This would allow media queries, alternate timesheets and consistency
with XSL-T / CSS.

Associating timesheets with XML documents

2009-04-23T04:45:24Z

>From the SMIL Timesheets spec. the examples show either embedding the
timesheet in a document head or using existing link elements:

<link href="timesheet.smil" rel="timesheet"
type="application/smil+xml">

For those XML document types that don't have link elements for this
purpose, is there a case for creating a processing instruction like the
one already used by stylesheets:

<?xml-stylesheet href="mystyle.css" type="text/css"?>

that would take the following form:

<?xml-timesheet href="timesheet.smil" type="application/smil+xml"?>

Having searched the spec and the www-smil mail archives I see no
examples of this already suggested.

Regards

Philip Fennell

>XML Developer (The Forge)
>
>BBC Future Media & Technology
>Media Village, 201 Wood Lane London W12 7TP
>BC4 C4, Broadcast Centre
>
>T: 0208 0085318

http://www.bbc.co.uk/
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.

I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

2009-04-23T04:33:33Z

Hello,

The other day I had an idea for an interesting use-case for SMIL
Timesheets, but before I go shooting my mouth-off about the idea, I was
wondering what progress is being made with regard to the 'Working
Draft'.

Any thoughts, feedback or genral comments would be much appreciated as I
hope to be publishing a blog entry about it at O'Reilly in the next
couple of days.

Regards

Philip Fennell

>XML Developer (The Forge)
>
>BBC Future Media & Technology
>Media Village, 201 Wood Lane London W12 7TP
>BC4 C4, Broadcast Centre
>
>T: 0208 0085318

http://www.bbc.co.uk/
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.

Idea for SMIL syntax: Control of progression through hyperlinks

2009-03-20T16:25:05Z

Hi, I wanted to post an idea for future SMIL attributes that would allow for further control of a presentation's progress and playback, if this is the place to do such.

My idea conceives of tying SMIL's timing mechanism with the usage of intrapage hyperlinks to allow for two options of intermediate progression control over a presentation: "time-based" and "textsection-based".

Time-based progression control would link the presentation proper with an explicit summation of the total time of the presentation's progression.

Textsection-based progression control, another optional method that can be used in conjunction with time-based control, would allow for the presentation to be controlled using area links.

Finally, a stationary progress slider could be constructed out of markup (be it XHTML, SVG or your run-of-the-mill user interface markup language with CSS styling) and can tie into both the time and textsection properties of the entire animation. I imagine the syntax being something like the following:

I think that this should be accomplishable through markup rather than forever relying only upon scripting to get a proper progress control method for markup presentations (particularly SVG slideshows and animations) and multimedia.

Harry

Nabble - w3.org - www-smil

Warning Notice!!!

Re: HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

Re: SMIL for Digital Signage

Re: XProc and SMIL: Orchestrating Pipelines

XProc and SMIL: Orchestrating Pipelines

Re: HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

Re: HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

Re: HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

Re: HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

HTML5/SMIL integration [was: Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing]

HTML5 the beginnings of SMIL Timesheets?

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing: how similar should SMIL and attribute names be?

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing: how similar should SMIL and attribute names be?

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing: how similar should SMIL and attribute names be?

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing

Re: First text then jpg in same region

First text then jpg in same region

Smil Fixed screen size image ?

Re: [SMIL30 REC] error in smil.idl

[SMIL30 REC] error in smil.idl

clipBegin/End don not want to work

RE: SMIL for Digital Signage

Re: SMIL for Digital Signage

SMIL for Digital Signage

RE: I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

Re: I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

Associating timesheets with XML documents

Re: I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

Re: I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

Re: Associating timesheets with XML documents

Re: Associating timesheets with XML documents

Associating timesheets with XML documents

I'd like to know what is happening to SMIL Timesheets...

Idea for SMIL syntax: Control of progression through hyperlinks

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing: how similar should SMIL and

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing: how similar should SMIL and

Re: ISSUE-10: suggest closing: how similar should SMIL and