website so close, and yet so far

[Graham Percival-3]

I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.
For the past month, I've spent approximately 2 hours a day (not
counting Sunday) working on the Grand Unified Builder.  As you
might expect from anything that cross-compiles a project like
lilypond on 8 platforms, GUB is large and complicated.  It has 613
lines of makefiles, 18,785 lines of python spread over 298 files,
37,420 lines of patch files, and 1,807 lines of nsis configuration
stuff for the windows build.  Figuring out how to fix/change
anything is hard.

To be honest, my PhD studies have suffered due to my work on it.
I'm already a month behind schedule, which is pretty impressive
since I'm only two months into the degree!


So I've been more-or-less ignoring the new website.  A few times
I've asked for help on it.  We now have an orchestra example.
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/index

But what else do I see?
-    Introduction->Alternative input
  Apparently, nobody knows what Denemo is.  (or else nobody can be
  arsed to send me a bloody two-sentence description)
-    Introduction->Alternative input
  Apparently, nobody knows what emacs or vim are.  (or else nobody
  can be arsed to send me a bloody two-sentence description)
-    Introduction->Features
  Apparently, nobody is capable of reading three webpages,
  comparing them to a third webpage, and giving an opinion that
  "yes, the new website looks good" or "the new webpage should
  also mention XYZ".   (or else nobody can be arsed...)
-    Community->Authors
  Apparently, nobody is capable of cutting and pasting together
  some text.  (or else...)


Come on, guys.  I'm giving up asking for screenshots or pictures.
I've never cared about CSS or presentation stuff.  But can we get
the bloody TEXT finished?!  At least at a "first draft" level?!?!

I admit that I drastically over-estimated the amount of interest
and help the website would generate.  I've scaled back the plans
as much as possible, in response to that minimal interest.  But
there's still about 5 hours of work to be done.

The files are in Documentation/general/ , so it should be easy to
generate a patch to fix any of those issues.

- Graham

PS  please don't respond to this email with "oh, and by the way,
the search box is broken" or "the icons on the download page
should be vertically centered" or anything like that.  I want the
MINIMAL amount to be finished.



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[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Graham,

> -    Introduction->Alternative input
>   Apparently, nobody knows what Denemo is.  (or else nobody can be
>   arsed to send me a bloody two-sentence description)

I don't know what Denemo is, and (to be honest) don't really care.

> -    Introduction->Alternative input
>   Apparently, nobody knows what emacs or vim are.  (or else nobody
>   can be arsed to send me a bloody two-sentence description)

I know what emacs and vim are, but wouldn't use them if my life  
depended on it — and therefore am not the person to be arsed to BLAH  
BLAH.

> -    Introduction->Features
>   Apparently, nobody is capable of reading three webpages,
>   comparing them to a third webpage, and giving an opinion that
>   "yes, the new website looks good" or "the new webpage should
>   also mention XYZ".   (or else nobody can be arsed...)

This paragraph doesn't even make sense to me, and I can't be arsed to  
parse it.

> -    Community->Authors
>   Apparently, nobody is capable of cutting and pasting together
>   some text.  (or else...)

Ditto.

Just answering in kind!  =)
Kieren.



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[Tim McNamara]

On Oct 24, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Graham Percival wrote:

> I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.

Well, since you reject the majority of what is sent to you, it  
probably discourages people from trying to contribute.


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[Graham Percival-3]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:20:59AM -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> On Oct 24, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Graham Percival wrote:
>
>> I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.
>
> Well, since you reject the majority of what is sent to you, it probably
> discourages people from trying to contribute.

I asked a few people who sent examples to add a few tweaks.  Is
that what you were talking about?  I really don't see 10 minutes
of lilypond-file writing as a big chore.  A few other examples
didn't fit into our single examples page, so yes, those were
rejected.

I can't recall rejecting any text additions.  In fact, I added
some contributed text whose accuracy I doubted (the Windows
installation steps) simply to be encouraging!  Compared to the
amount of scrutiny that code patches get, I'm very accepting.

- Graham


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[ian_hulin]

Graham,
Is this any use?

Cheers,
Ian

Graham Percival wrote:
>   Apparently, nobody knows what Denemo is.  (or else nobody can be
>   arsed to send me a bloody two-sentence description)

(From www.denemo.org)

Denemo is a music notation program for Linux and Windows that lets you
rapidly enter notation for typesetting via the LilyPond music engraver.
Music can be typed in at the PC-Keyboard, or played in via MIDI
controller, or input acoustically into a microphone plugged into your
computer's soundcard.

Denemo itself does not engrave the music for printout - it uses LilyPond
which generates beautiful sheet music to the highest publishing
standards. Denemo just displays the staffs in a slim and efficient way,
so you can enter and edit the music efficiently.

My bit:
Denemo is a wisiwig front-end editing program for generating Lilypond
scores.
I've attached a screenshot if you want it.  (I don't use this editor
myself, I prefer LilypondTool in JEdit and Frescobaldi.)

> -    Introduction->Alternative input
>   Apparently, nobody knows what emacs or vim are.  (or else nobody
>   can be arsed to send me a bloody two-sentence description)

Emacs is a text editor with language-sensitive capabilities for many
different computer languages.
Emacs is a highly extensible editor and can be used as an Integrated
Development Environment.
There is a 'lilypond mode' which supplies the language definitions for
working with Lilypond source files.
It is one of the two most popular editors on Unix/Linux Systems,
although the GNU implementation is available for all platforms.

Vim is the other popular text editor for Unix/Linux systems and is an
extension of the older Unix vi editor.  It is also extensible and
configurable and available for most platforms, including Linux, Unix,
Windows and MAC-OS.





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[Graham Percival-3]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:54:02PM +0100, Ian Hulin wrote:

> Graham Percival wrote:
>>   Apparently, nobody knows what Denemo is.  (or else nobody can be
>>   arsed to send me a bloody two-sentence description)
>
> (From www.denemo.org)
>
> Denemo is a music notation program for Linux and Windows that lets you  
> rapidly enter notation for typesetting via the LilyPond music engraver.  
> Music can be typed in at the PC-Keyboard, or played in via MIDI  
> controller, or input acoustically into a microphone plugged into your  
> computer's soundcard.
>
> Denemo itself does not engrave the music for printout - it uses LilyPond  
> which generates beautiful sheet music to the highest publishing  
> standards. Denemo just displays the staffs in a slim and efficient way,  
> so you can enter and edit the music efficiently.
>
> My bit:
> Denemo is a wisiwig front-end editing program for generating Lilypond  
> scores.

Hmm.   Could you edit this down to 2-3 sentences?  I'd like it to
fit with the rest of the page.  It might be good to play up the
WYSIWYG / gui  aspect, to contrast it with the other editors?

In an ideal world, I'd like to have a sentence or half-sentence
about why we don't all use denemo -- I mean, the major problem
with lilypond (from a beginner's point of view) is the text-only
input.  Maybe add something about the limited functionality, lack
of tweaking... whatever it is that makes lilypondtool /
frescobaldi / etc  a worthwhile alternative?
(the last part is only for bonus marks; I'd be happy with the 2-3
sentence edit)

> I've attached a screenshot if you want it.  (I don't use this editor  
> myself, I prefer LilypondTool in JEdit and Frescobaldi.)

I'd like to have a screenshot, but there's a lot of blank space in
that view.  Also, the "grab the whole desktop / grab the window"
thing is visible.

Could you resize the window to avoid so much blank space
(especially horizontally -- to match the rest of the page, I'd
like it only 400 pixels wide), and take it again without the
screenshot thing?
on OSX, I think it's "option-apple-f4 space" to get a screenshot
of the current window... a quick google would find the answer.

>> -    Introduction->Alternative input
>>   Apparently, nobody knows what emacs or vim are.  (or else nobody
>>   can be arsed to send me a bloody two-sentence description)
>
> Emacs is a text editor with language-sensitive capabilities for many  
> different computer languages.
> Emacs is a highly extensible editor and can be used as an Integrated  
> Development Environment.
> There is a 'lilypond mode' which supplies the language definitions for  
> working with Lilypond source files.
> It is one of the two most popular editors on Unix/Linux Systems,  
> although the GNU implementation is available for all platforms.
>
> Vim is the other popular text editor for Unix/Linux systems and is an  
> extension of the older Unix vi editor.  It is also extensible and  
> configurable and available for most platforms, including Linux, Unix,  
> Windows and MAC-OS.

Thanks, taken.  I'll remove the part about platforms, since the
alternate editor page has little icons to indicate the OSes.

An emacs person might want to say something about the emacs
lilypond mode, but if they want to contribute later, that's fine
with me.  At least we have *something* to go there now.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham


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[David Kastrup]

Graham Percival <graham@...> writes:

> On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:54:02PM +0100, Ian Hulin wrote:
>> Graham Percival wrote:
>>>   Apparently, nobody knows what Denemo is.  (or else nobody can be
>>>   arsed to send me a bloody two-sentence description)
>>
>> (From www.denemo.org)
>>
>> Denemo is a music notation program for Linux and Windows that lets you  
>> rapidly enter notation for typesetting via the LilyPond music engraver.  
>> Music can be typed in at the PC-Keyboard, or played in via MIDI  
>> controller, or input acoustically into a microphone plugged into your  
>> computer's soundcard.
>>
>> Denemo itself does not engrave the music for printout - it uses LilyPond  
>> which generates beautiful sheet music to the highest publishing  
>> standards. Denemo just displays the staffs in a slim and efficient way,  
>> so you can enter and edit the music efficiently.
>>
>> My bit:
>> Denemo is a wisiwig front-end editing program for generating Lilypond  
>> scores.
>
> Hmm.   Could you edit this down to 2-3 sentences?  I'd like it to
> fit with the rest of the page.  It might be good to play up the
> WYSIWYG / gui  aspect, to contrast it with the other editors?

It is not WYSIWYG at all.  It is what LyX calls "WYSIWYM" (what you see
is what you mean), namely giving a readable approximation of the output.

> In an ideal world, I'd like to have a sentence or half-sentence about
> why we don't all use denemo -- I mean, the major problem with lilypond
> (from a beginner's point of view) is the text-only input.  Maybe add
> something about the limited functionality, lack of
> tweaking... whatever it is that makes lilypondtool / frescobaldi / etc
> a worthwhile alternative?

Denemo saves its files in its own file format and merely exports to
Lilypond.  It is not able to import most Lilypond files written by other
means which can be a problem if hand-writing Lilypond code is part of
the project workflow (because of individual problem solutions or
external contributors).  It also works quite worse with version control
systems than hand-written input.

--
David Kastrup



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[Federico Bruni-3]

Graham Percival wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:20:59AM -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:
>> On Oct 24, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Graham Percival wrote:
>>
>>> I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.
>> Well, since you reject the majority of what is sent to you, it probably
>> discourages people from trying to contribute.
>
> I asked a few people who sent examples to add a few tweaks.  Is
> that what you were talking about?  I really don't see 10 minutes
> of lilypond-file writing as a big chore.  

I was one of those..
I've cleaned up the file a little bit, as 2.13.6 has added support for
hammeron and pulloff.

Unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to add the tweaks suggested
by Graham.
So if someone else is able to do it, he's free to emprove the
(attached) file (read the TODO section in the beginning).

I'm not good in tweaking yet, so don't rely on me for that stuff.
Also, I'd like to use my spare time to speed up the translation of doc
into italian. This is my priority now.

Cheers,
Federico

--
Federico Bruni  |  http://www.gnurag.net/blog/

LibrePlanet Italia
http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/LibrePlanetItalia


\version "2.13.6"

#(set-global-staff-size 22.45)

% TODO
%{I used to add a custom #'gap = #0.5 and #'extra-offset  to
  glissandi that went to an accidental'd note.  You might want to
  do a similar thing, because I see collisions.%}

%% Hide fret number: useful to draw slide into/from a casual point of
%% the fretboard.
hideFretNumber = { \once \override TabNoteHead #'transparent = ##t
                 \once \override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
                 \once \override Stem #'transparent = ##t
                 \once \override NoteHead #'no-ledgers = ##t
}

\paper {
  indent= #0
  line-width= #180
}

upper=  \relative c' {
  \time 4/4
  \key e \major
  \set Staff.midiInstrument = #"acoustic guitar (steel)"
  \set fingeringOrientations = #'(left)
 
  %\override Staff.Glissando #'extra-offset = #' (0.0 . 1.0)
  \partial 4. \acciaccatura c16 \glissando cis8  e4
  < cis-1 g'-3 >2 s8 \grace a16 ( \glissando <b-2>8\3 )  <d-1> ( b ) |
  <e-3>\2 ( <d-1> b ) \grace <ais-2>16 ( \glissando  a8  g ) s4. |
  s4.  < d'\3 g\2 >8  < gis,\4  d'\3 fis\2 >2\arpeggio ~ |
 
  < gis\4  d'\3 fis\2 >2  < b'\2\harmonic e\harmonic >2^\markup { \musicglyph #"scripts.ufermata" } |
 
}

lower=  \relative c {
  \set fingeringOrientations = #'(left)
 
  \partial 4. s4. |
  s4  e,4  s2 |
  s2 s8 <e'-3>4. ~ |
  e4  \hideFretNumber \grace { b8 \glissando s4 }  <e-2>4\5  e,2 ~ |
 
  e2  < e'\6\harmonic > |
}

\score {
  \new StaffGroup <<
    \new Staff = "guitar" <<
      \context Voice = "upper guitar" { \clef "G_8" \voiceOne \upper }
      \context Voice = "lower guitar" { \clef "G_8" \voiceTwo \lower }
    >>
    \new TabStaff = "tab" <<
      \context TabVoice = "upper tab" { \clef "moderntab" \voiceOne \upper }
      \context TabVoice = "lower tab" { \clef "moderntab" \voiceTwo \lower }
    >>
  >>
 
 \midi {
    \context {
      \Score tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 120 4)
    }
  }
 
 \layout {
    \context {
    \Staff
    \override StringNumber #'transparent = ##t
    }
   
    \context {
    \TabStaff
    \revert Arpeggio #'stencil
    }
  }
}
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[Valentin Villenave]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Federico Bruni <brunology@...> wrote:
>>>> I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.

Wow, is this normal:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/

This link points to the non-officially-published website's homepage???

Cheers,
Valentin


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[John Mandereau-2]

Le jeudi 29 octobre 2009 à 11:04 +0100, Valentin Villenave a écrit :
> Wow, is this normal:
>
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/
>
> This link points to the non-officially-published website's homepage???

IMO it's too early to replace the old documentation index with the new
website, but I've been so idle in docs building lately that I feel my
voice won't count.

Best,
John


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[Graham Percival-3]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:04:31AM +0100, Valentin Villenave wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Federico Bruni <brunology@...> wrote:
> >>>> I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.
>
> Wow, is this normal:
>
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/
>
> This link points to the non-officially-published website's homepage???

Umm... welcome to git from a month ago?
Documentation/index.html.in  was removed with prejudice a few
weeks ago.  If you're curious, I would encourage you to look
through the git history.

Cheers,
- Graham


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[Valentin Villenave]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Graham Percival
<graham@...> wrote:
> Umm... welcome to git from a month ago?
> Documentation/index.html.in  was removed with prejudice a few
> weeks ago.  If you're curious, I would encourage you to look
> through the git history.

Okay, I must've blacked out for a while :)

Cheers,
Valentin


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[Reinhold Kainhofer]

Am Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 12:40:06 schrieb Graham Percival:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:04:31AM +0100, Valentin Villenave wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Federico Bruni <brunology@...>
wrote:

> > >>>> I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.
> >
> > Wow, is this normal:
> >
> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/
> >
> > This link points to the non-officially-published website's homepage???
>
> Umm... welcome to git from a month ago?
> Documentation/index.html.in  was removed with prejudice a few
> weeks ago.  If you're curious, I would encourage you to look
> through the git history.

Hmm, I must say that while these changes look good from a design-POV, they are
an absolute PITA if you simply want to look something up in the docs.

Previousely, you could simply
1) go to the docs page,
2) click on the manual and you are there.

Now, you have to
1) Go to the manuals page
2) look up the manual, which takes a few seconds, since a) their title is not
bold, b) the same size as the other text and c) it is written in green, which
makes even less contrast than the black text on the green background.
Furthermore, there is so much other visual clutter on the page that looking
for a manual name takes much longer now.
3) Once you have found your manual and click on it, there is another page
describing the manual
4) On the manual page, you'll have to direct your attention to the right side
and look for the format.
5) Click on the desired format, and you are finally there...

So, "quickly" looking up something is not easily possible any more...

The page is good for first-time users, but for anyone working with lilypond for
a few weeks already, things got more complicated...

Cheers,
Reinhold

PS: The reason why I hadn't realized this until now is that I'm still using my
AJAX search in the manuals http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/ajax/, which I
haven't rebased on current master, since so much happened in master since
then). Any news on how we proceed with the AJAX search???

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Reinhold Kainhofer, reinhold@..., http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
 * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886
 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org


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[Graham Percival-3]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Reinhold Kainhofer
<reinhold@...> wrote:

> Am Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 12:40:06 schrieb Graham Percival:
>> Umm... welcome to git from a month ago?
>> Documentation/index.html.in  was removed with prejudice a few
>> weeks ago.  If you're curious, I would encourage you to look
>> through the git history.
>
> Now, you have to
> 1) Go to the manuals page
> 2) look up the manual, which takes a few seconds, since a) their title is not
> bold, b) the same size as the other text and c) it is written in green, which
> makes even less contrast than the black text on the green background.
> Furthermore, there is so much other visual clutter on the page that looking
> for a manual name takes much longer now.
> 3) Once you have found your manual and click on it, there is another page
> describing the manual
> 4) On the manual page, you'll have to direct your attention to the right side
> and look for the format.
> 5) Click on the desired format, and you are finally there...
>
> So, "quickly" looking up something is not easily possible any more...

Good!  I mean, not good, but good that we found this problem.
Discovering things like this is precisely why I made the switch.

I'll look into this on the weekend.

> PS: The reason why I hadn't realized this until now is that I'm still using my
> AJAX search in the manuals http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/ajax/, which I
> haven't rebased on current master, since so much happened in master since
> then). Any news on how we proceed with the AJAX search???

The news is that I spend an average of 2 hours on lilypond every day,
but routine tasks plus working on GUB occupies all that task.  It
doesn't make sense to stop working on GUB, since it took me ages to
get accustomed to its layout and now it's fresh in my mind.

If more people helped with the mundane tasks, I'd have more time to
complete GUB, work on the website, and then start looking at AJAX.  If
more people helped with the website, that would cross off that task,
and I could start looking at AJAZ sooner.  I'm not really going to ask
that people help with GUB, since that's a hugely complicated task
(solving a hugely complicated problem, so the complexity is
understandable).


I regret the continual delays in looking at AJAX, but I'm only willing
to spend so much time on lilypond.  And this is including my
almost-total lack of a social life... if I ever make any friends [in
this city], let alone finding a girlfriend, my lilypond work will drop
further.

We desperately need to get more people involved, but there's no point
starting GOP until we can support the new contributors, and that's not
happening until the CG and lilypond tk git gui thing is ready, and
that's not happening until somebody looks at it (and as far as I know,
absolutely no frogs have attempted to look at it), etc etc.  I'm
willing to look at those things myself, but those would jostle with
AJAX in terms of what I do after GUB and the new website are done.

*shrug*
if it sounds like I'm massively frustrated over this state of
affairs... well, yes, I am.

- Graham


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Am Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 schrieb Valentin Villenave:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Federico Bruni <brunology@...> wrote:
> >>>> I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.
>
> Wow, is this normal:
>
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/
>
> This link points to the non-officially-published website's homepage???

I just look on it and would like to mention that the site has some problems
with Konqueror 3:
The content from the heading ("Documentation for Lilypond 2.13.6") to above of
the footer is embedded in a scrolling area. (see attached screen shot).

The documentation browser is odd. ;-)
I can't use the scroll wheel function in there and if I search for a word in
the text, it gets highlighted but not scrolled to automatically. Something
tells me these are not ordinary framesets.

Granted, Konqueror 3 is sadly reaching the end of its life and one could just
ignore the tiny fraction of ppl still using it. But still, my observations
could hint to some bigger problems within the code.
--
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
Q: What’s the proper plural of a "Net-connected Windows machine"?
A: A Botnet.



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[Reinhold Kainhofer]

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Am Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 17:23:18 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger:
> Am Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 schrieb Valentin Villenave:
> > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Federico Bruni <brunology@...>
wrote:

> > >>>> I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.
> >
> > Wow, is this normal:
> >
> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/
> >
> > This link points to the non-officially-published website's homepage???
>
> I just look on it and would like to mention that the site has some problems
> with Konqueror 3:
> The content from the heading ("Documentation for Lilypond 2.13.6") to above
>  of the footer is embedded in a scrolling area. (see attached screen shot).

Yes, because it's a <div> with overflow set to scrolling in the CSS...

> The documentation browser is odd. ;-)
> I can't use the scroll wheel function in there

That's fixed in KDE 4...

> and if I search for a word
>  in the text, it gets highlighted but not scrolled to automatically.

Yes, that's the main problem of Konqueror (which I'm using myself)...
That issue also appears if you jump to an anchor in the middle of the page:
Konqueror will always show the beginning of the page :(

>  Something tells me these are not ordinary framesets.

No, framesets are a big no-no for several reasons: 1) multiple files involved
2) bookmarking is not possible, 3) accessibility issues, etc.

> Granted, Konqueror 3 is sadly reaching the end of its life and one could
>  just ignore the tiny fraction of ppl still using it. But still, my
>  observations could hint to some bigger problems within the code.

No, there should be no bigger problem. Just that Konqueror is not able to
fully handle the CSS we have...
It works fine in opera and firefox.

Cheers,
Reinhold
- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Reinhold Kainhofer, reinhold@..., http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
 * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886
 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org
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[Leonardo Herrera-2]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Graham Percival
<graham@...> wrote:
[...]
> *shrug*
> if it sounds like I'm massively frustrated over this state of
> affairs... well, yes, I am.
>
> - Graham

Well, I offer my help as web monkey. I don't have time for big
commitments, but little things (small rendering errors, missing links,
etc.) I can do.

Regards,
--
Leonardo Herrera
mailto:leonardo.herrera@...


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[Patrick McCarty-3]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Reinhold Kainhofer
<reinhold@...> wrote:

>
> Am Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 17:23:18 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger:
>> Am Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 schrieb Valentin Villenave:
>> > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Federico Bruni <brunology@...>
> wrote:
>> > >>>> I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.
>> >
>> > Wow, is this normal:
>> >
>> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/
>> >
>> > This link points to the non-officially-published website's homepage???
>>
>> I just look on it and would like to mention that the site has some problems
>> with Konqueror 3:
>> The content from the heading ("Documentation for Lilypond 2.13.6") to above
>>  of the footer is embedded in a scrolling area. (see attached screen shot).
>
> Yes, because it's a <div> with overflow set to scrolling in the CSS...

IIRC, this hack is needed to push the footer to the bottom of each web
page (over the floating content).  It works in every browser I've
tested, but apparently there are issues with Konqueror 3.

If anyone has a more portable fix, please let me know.

Thanks,
Patrick


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[Federico Bruni-3]

Patrick McCarty wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Reinhold Kainhofer
> <reinhold@...> wrote:
>> Am Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 17:23:18 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger:
>>> Am Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 schrieb Valentin Villenave:
>>>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Federico Bruni <brunology@...>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the user community.
>>>> Wow, is this normal:
>>>>
>>>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/
>>>>
>>>> This link points to the non-officially-published website's homepage???
>>> I just look on it and would like to mention that the site has some problems
>>> with Konqueror 3:
>>> The content from the heading ("Documentation for Lilypond 2.13.6") to above
>>>  of the footer is embedded in a scrolling area. (see attached screen shot).
>> Yes, because it's a <div> with overflow set to scrolling in the CSS...
>
> IIRC, this hack is needed to push the footer to the bottom of each web
> page (over the floating content).  It works in every browser I've
> tested, but apparently there are issues with Konqueror 3.
>

there is the same issue with Konqueror 4

> If anyone has a more portable fix, please let me know.
>

I would use this solution, it's reported to work fine also with Konqueror:
http://www.cssstickyfooter.com/

Cheers,
Federico

--
Federico Bruni  |  http://www.gnurag.net/blog/

LibrePlanet Italia
http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/LibrePlanetItalia



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[Patrick McCarty-3]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 1:03 AM, Federico Bruni <brunology@...> wrote:

> Patrick McCarty wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Reinhold Kainhofer
>> <reinhold@...> wrote:
>
> there is the same issue with Konqueror 4
>
>> If anyone has a more portable fix, please let me know.
>>
>
> I would use this solution, it's reported to work fine also with Konqueror:
> http://www.cssstickyfooter.com/

That looks great!  Would you be willing to add this to our CSS
stylesheet?  I don't really have the time/interest right now to pursue
this.

If you or anyone else are interested, the current stylesheet is located here:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/lilypond-web.css

Thanks,
Patrick


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