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www.gnome.org
by Thilo Pfennig-6
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Its frustrating that nothing happens on WGO. The problem is not all the
bugs or shortcomings of the website. The problem is the organization. I also dont think that a technical new solution like Plone will magically remove all organizational problems. Its easy to see bugs on web pages but if those are not fixed the problem lies deeper. Concrete suggestions: Find somebody who will be the primary webmaster (in a responsible sense, not so much technical) and find somebody who is officially coordinating marketing efforts. There are many cooks but you can never depend on anything that is said right now. Intransparency kills involvement. Regards, Thilo -- Thilo Pfennig - PfennigSolutions IT-Beratung- Wiki-Systeme Sandkrug 28 - 24143 Kiel (Germany) http://www.pfennigsolutions.de/ XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Thilo_Pfennig - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tpfennig _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by john palmieri
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There has been work on the new site though I'm not sure what the status is, I'm guessing it is in GNOME SVN. I think the people involved just got overwhelmed with other things. If you wanted to volunteer I bet the web team would welcome your help.
-- John (J5) Palmieri On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 6:45 AM, Thilo Pfennig <tp@...> wrote: Its frustrating that nothing happens on WGO. The problem is not all the _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Thilo Pfennig-6
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(Cc goes to gnome web list)
Hi John, thanks for replying john palmieri schrieb: > There has been work on the new site though I'm not sure what the > status is, I'm guessing it is in GNOME SVN. I think the people > involved just got overwhelmed with other things. If you wanted to > volunteer I bet the web team would welcome your help. Its not that I do not know anything about the status. As far as I understand there are the old pages in SVN - and also somewhere is a new Plone based website that will be release final at any date in the future. The problem is rather, that some small fixes like bug #553529 get uncommented for a month, some things (like deleting gnome office pages) even took 4 years. There is not at all a lack of volunteers - but most do give up contributing as they are not able to really help or get feedback on what they do, or what they like to do. Or if they get feedback they get a NO. Another fact will be, that even if the new Plone based site will be ready in two years (and ahy everything other changes are stopped) it could hardly suck up all pages that are there currently. There is an endless count of pages. Many projects also do not update theirs any more like the Epiphany guys. As i said - its not so much a technical or a work problem - its a problem of responsibility and organization. GNOME web teams sounds good, but its impossible to get a definitive answer from anybody because everybody only takes part of the responsibility and none of that is official. In relation to a GNOME software project its like there is no release management - and the SVN mechanism reduces possible help mostly to those who are focusing on software development and not websites (which is really a totally unrelated task). The GNOME Germany web pages face similar problems and are offline since 3 years. Same problem - nobody cares and nobody wants to be responsible - but different effect - www.gnome.org still exists but its in very bad shape. I am not seeking for a short term solution but I like to see a longterm organizational change which would be somebody who gets task to manage the web sites from the GNOME Foundation. This should be somebody who has good connections to the developer community but rather comes from a web background or at least has helped some web projects to get (re)launched. It does not have to be the one who actually writes code or works on the web server configs, but he should be able to do so if nobody else does. I would suggest to seek somebody who does just this. I guess there would be some in the GNOME related community who could do that. And that would be the one to contact, who also leads the web team and has the last word on major changes, deadlines, etc.. I think that somebody like that is missing for years. Until now things only changed if somebody with SVN access was motivated to fix things. Thats not sufficient for managing important web pages. regards, Thilo -- Thilo Pfennig - PfennigSolutions IT-Beratung- Wiki-Systeme Sandkrug 28 - 24143 Kiel (Germany) http://www.pfennigsolutions.de/ XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Thilo_Pfennig - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tpfennig _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by David Bain-5
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+1 to the idea of a "web release manager" or whatever you call it.
On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Thilo Pfennig <tp@...> wrote: (Cc goes to gnome web list) _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Behdad Esfahbod-3
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Thilo Pfennig wrote:
> Its frustrating that nothing happens on WGO. It certainly is. > The problem is not all the > bugs or shortcomings of the website. The problem is the organization. I > also dont think that a technical new solution like Plone will magically > remove all organizational problems. Its easy to see bugs on web pages > but if those are not fixed the problem lies deeper. I completely agree. And judging based on how long it has taken, I'm tending to thin the Plone system will bring in more problems than it will solve. > Concrete suggestions: Find somebody who will be the primary webmaster > (in a responsible sense, not so much technical) and find somebody who is > officially coordinating marketing efforts. There are many cooks but you > can never depend on anything that is said right now. Intransparency > kills involvement. It's easy to say so, it's impossible to find that one person. I have a different approach to the solution: Lets install a readily available CMS, like Joomla, plug it into our existing LDAP account system, make it easy for everyone with commit access to create a web password and edit. Then we can mobilize the hundreds of our volunteers to keep the website up to date instead of looking for The One. behdad > Regards, > Thilo _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Martin Aspeli
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Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> Thilo Pfennig wrote: >> Its frustrating that nothing happens on WGO. > > It certainly is. > >> The problem is not all the >> bugs or shortcomings of the website. The problem is the organization. I >> also dont think that a technical new solution like Plone will magically >> remove all organizational problems. Its easy to see bugs on web pages >> but if those are not fixed the problem lies deeper. > > I completely agree. And judging based on how long it has taken, I'm tending > to thin the Plone system will bring in more problems than it will solve. > >> Concrete suggestions: Find somebody who will be the primary webmaster >> (in a responsible sense, not so much technical) and find somebody who is >> officially coordinating marketing efforts. There are many cooks but you >> can never depend on anything that is said right now. Intransparency >> kills involvement. > > It's easy to say so, it's impossible to find that one person. I have a > different approach to the solution: Lets install a readily available CMS, like > Joomla, plug it into our existing LDAP account system, make it easy for > everyone with commit access to create a web password and edit. Then we can > mobilize the hundreds of our volunteers to keep the website up to date instead > of looking for The One. I'm not sure this would be any different to what you have with Plone: it's a readily available CMS, it can connect to your LDAP account system, you can let let anyone create a password and edit pages. The problem seems to be that no-one is actually doing the work to get it up to a live site. I saw the current state of play at the Plone Conference and it looks tantalisingly close. However, unless someone actually has the time, power and interest to put it on a live server and turn the key so that it actually becomes www.gnome.org, then it's always going to be "nearly done", as it has been for over a year. I see a few people here trying to make it happen, and I hope those people *will* make it happen. Respectfully, I think that starting from scratch with a new technology stack right now would cost you another 6-12 months of re-work unless you suddenly find a lot of dedicated people with the time, power and interest to make this happen. Cheers, Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Behdad Esfahbod-3
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Martin Aspeli wrote:
> > I'm not sure this would be any different to what you have with Plone: > it's a readily available CMS, it can connect to your LDAP account > system, you can let let anyone create a password and edit pages. Fair enough. > The problem seems to be that no-one is actually doing the work to get it > up to a live site. I saw the current state of play at the Plone > Conference and it looks tantalisingly close. However, unless someone > actually has the time, power and interest to put it on a live server and > turn the key so that it actually becomes www.gnome.org, then it's always > going to be "nearly done", as it has been for over a year. Indeed. > I see a few people here trying to make it happen, and I hope those > people *will* make it happen. Respectfully, I think that starting from > scratch with a new technology stack right now would cost you another > 6-12 months of re-work unless you suddenly find a lot of dedicated > people with the time, power and interest to make this happen. I have been thinking about starting to set up a Joomla installation and play with it myself. I can't say I feel comfortable enough to do that with Plone. So we have two options: * Wait another year or two and hope the Plone thing happens, * Start experimenting with other things, if they make it faster, so be it. I probably go dig the requirements discussions from two years ago and start playing with Joomla. That said, no changes in the Plone plan needed. Cheers, behdad > Cheers, > Martin > _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Thilo Pfennig-6
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Behdad Esfahbod schrieb:
> I probably go dig the requirements discussions from two years ago and start > playing with Joomla. That said, no changes in the Plone plan needed. > I wouldn't really start with yet another CMS. I think a lot can be done now with patches on SVN - many small fixes. I do not think one should trough away the Plone solution - thats not what I ever wanted to suggest - although I prefered Drupal for many reasons. But now that some work is done it should not be wasted. Unless the people working on it give up. I think what should be needed is: a) A Beta deadline - meaning a date when the site should really running. So a finished status for testing. And what would be especially interesting from my perspective is how much of the www.gnome.org/* that Plone will than be able to deliver. I did a quick count that might be very unaccurate: $ find ./ -name '*wml'|wc -l 167 So this are 167 pages maybe. If this is wrong please correct that count. My guess is that the Plone Beta maybe will have only 40 pages at time of Beta. The rest would need to be hacked in by volunteers. My estimate would be that Beta testing plus hacking would need three months after the Beta release date (about 42 pages/month) . b) A date for the final release. I would say if on March 2009 the site would be 100% complete this would be ok. April maybe also - but everything after that would not be acceptable. If there would be deadline somebody would need to make them happen and also take responsibility if they are missed. Somebody would need to step up and say that this is doable. And if you say this is not doable one needs to find an alternative solution that would give similar results in a shorter time. I think the whole problem started when the CmsRequirements started to grow. Like on localization: What if Plones localization support is really better when we will not get a working installation? Plone is great in many fields - but this does not mean at all that we would ever get to the point to use it to the full extend. The practical approach would be: WGO wasnt build with version control and a build system for many years - every modern CMS will give some practical advance. The option to keep the current build system was always in place if the one alternative would not make it - or as long as it would not make it. So this was an option in play that was never decided but it is what we now (still) have, because we did not count in a failure of the plan. Some say that we now need to go back to the requirements that were agreed. I think that if we do we would need to come to the same result as we have been. Another thing that was missed is that all CMSes develop. So what GNOME needs is a sufficiently working solution at the point of the release - it does not matter much what which CMS can do today or could do yesterday. Also the question is if we have the possibility to fix some stuff that is not working perfectly ourselves. This means that some of the hard requirements will actually be not as important as they looked from a frozen perspective back then. And this also means that some soft requirements like usability would actually become more important. I think the essential point is that a CMS for WGO needs to be workable, manageable and extendable. And that it should be actively developed by a community one can trust. Then security sure is a high priority. Also it should be a system which many of the developers and people who want to help would be comfortable using it. I think we had a large portion of users who knew and liked Drupal - I dont remember much of the same for other CMSes. Also Drupal was already used for GUADEC. From what I have read Joomla seems to be less secure. What I also like about Drupal is that you do not have to update to a new version for every vulnerability but that you get nice patches like this: http://drupal.org/files/sa-2008-067/SA-2008-067-6.5.patch . But again, I think the people who will actually do the most work should have a say here. I think theoretically PHP based systems are always worse when it comes to security. But I dont know any handy Python based solution. And with plone I think you need 5-6 people who know this beast very well and stand besides the users to help them get their work done and/or understand the system. Summary: Decide soon (in the beginning week maybe) where to go next with a rough consensus and then go that way, wherever that path leads. The worst situation is the open decision with no deadline. Regards, Thilo -- Thilo Pfennig - PfennigSolutions IT-Beratung- Wiki-Systeme Sandkrug 28 - 24143 Kiel (Germany) http://www.pfennigsolutions.de/ XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Thilo_Pfennig - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tpfennig _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Behdad Esfahbod-3
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Thilo Pfennig wrote:
Thanks Thilo for the very well-written summary. > Summary: Decide soon (in the beginning week maybe) where to go next with > a rough consensus and then go that way, wherever that path leads. The > worst situation is the open decision with no deadline. Ok, maybe we can start by getting a summary of where we stand from the Plone team? Who is doing the work, and who is leading it? Please speak up! Cheers, behdad > Regards, > Thilo > _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Murray Cumming
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On Sun, 2008-10-26 at 18:07 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
[snip] > I have a > different approach to the solution: Lets install a readily available CMS, like > Joomla, plug it into our existing LDAP account system, make it easy for > everyone with commit access to create a web password and edit. Then we can > mobilize the hundreds of our volunteers to keep the website up to date instead > of looking for The One. That's as likely to make things worse as to make them better, and it's likely to lock us into something before we've thought properly about whether that's what we want. For instance, it would make it even more difficult to eventually have a website whose content can be translated as easily as our GNOME desktop application and documentation text. I'd be particularly worried about using any CMS that didn't let us see the changes that all these hundreds of people made day to day. At the moment, I am 1. Assuming that the Plone effort will fail again, or take time-approaching-infinity to get even a test site up. 2. Doing what I can to help the Plone people to help us, in case I am wrong about 1. 3. Trying to get the structure and content out of the Plone system so I can archive it, and then just reorganize the existing gnomweb-wml stuff to match it. That way we will not have lost that result from the whole process, though we won't have the advantages of the real Plone system. At the moment, I am the only person doing any of this, and I've been doing it as a follow-on from Quim's previous leadership, with his consent. Of course the board is free to ask me to step aside and do nothing instead. I do have other things to do. Murray _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Behdad Esfahbod-3
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Murray Cumming wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-10-26 at 18:07 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > [snip] >> I have a >> different approach to the solution: Lets install a readily available CMS, like >> Joomla, plug it into our existing LDAP account system, make it easy for >> everyone with commit access to create a web password and edit. Then we can >> mobilize the hundreds of our volunteers to keep the website up to date instead >> of looking for The One. > > That's as likely to make things worse as to make them better, and it's > likely to lock us into something before we've thought properly about > whether that's what we want. For instance, it would make it even more > difficult to eventually have a website whose content can be translated > as easily as our GNOME desktop application and documentation text. Do we absolutely need that feature? I'm very doubtful of people jumping at it and actually translating more than, say, 5 pages. > I'd be particularly worried about using any CMS that didn't let us see the > changes that all these hundreds of people made day to day. Details? Isn't Plone development open? What has frightened me about the Plone plan is that when I read messages about it, it's always about coding and making changes in Plone itself, while I had expected it to be customization and configuration for GNOME's use. What's so different about GNOME's requirements needing so much changes in an off-the-shelf CMS? > At the moment, I am > 1. Assuming that the Plone effort will fail again, or take time-approaching-infinity > to get even a test site up. > 2. Doing what I can to help the Plone people to help us, in case I am wrong about 1. > 3. Trying to get the structure and content out of the Plone system so I can archive it, > and then just reorganize the existing gnomweb-wml stuff to match it. That way we will > not have lost that result from the whole process, though we won't have the advantages > of the real Plone system. > > At the moment, I am the only person doing any of this, and I've been doing it as a > follow-on from Quim's previous leadership, with his consent. Of course the board is > free to ask me to step aside and do nothing instead. I do have other things to do. Doh, no, why? I'm glad there's some website cleanup is coming out of this even if the Plone thing doesn't arrive anytime soon. Thanks, behdad > Murray > > _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Carsten Senger-3
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Murray Cumming schrieb:
> On Sun, 2008-10-26 at 18:07 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: [...] > 3. Trying to get the structure and content out of the Plone system so I can archive it, > and then just reorganize the existing gnomweb-wml stuff to match it. I have extracted the content from the Data.fs you provided and attached it. Everything that could be of interest is in structure/en. The contentobjects are saved in the rfc-822-format. If you have other information in a Data.fs you want to get out I can do that even if we fail. On live.gnome.org are some pages about the overall structure and some subsections. I can't see if they are up to date. If they aren't I mark them as outdated. [...] ..Carsten _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Murray Cumming
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On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 14:53 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> Murray Cumming wrote: > > On Sun, 2008-10-26 at 18:07 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > [snip] > >> I have a > >> different approach to the solution: Lets install a readily available CMS, like > >> Joomla, plug it into our existing LDAP account system, make it easy for > >> everyone with commit access to create a web password and edit. Then we can > >> mobilize the hundreds of our volunteers to keep the website up to date instead > >> of looking for The One. > > > > That's as likely to make things worse as to make them better, and it's > > likely to lock us into something before we've thought properly about > > whether that's what we want. For instance, it would make it even more > > difficult to eventually have a website whose content can be translated > > as easily as our GNOME desktop application and documentation text. > > Do we absolutely need that feature? I'm very doubtful of people jumping at it > and actually translating more than, say, 5 pages. It was, I think, the most important feature that we considered when choosing a new www.gnome.org system. I think having 5 pages translated, and kept up to date, would be wonderful. However, I think the entire site would be translated in many languages if we made it possible. The GNOME translation team are amazing. They seem to love translating applications, release notes, documentation, anything that we even vaguely make available for translation. > > I'd be particularly worried about using any CMS that didn't let us see the > > changes that all these hundreds of people made day to day. > > Details? Isn't Plone development open? I mean, if someone changed some text on a web page, I want to see that change, just like we do now in svn or the wiki. That's also necessary to keep translations up-to-date. > What has frightened me about the Plone plan is that when I read messages about > it, it's always about coding and making changes in Plone itself, while I had > expected it to be customization and configuration for GNOME's use. What's so > different about GNOME's requirements needing so much changes in an > off-the-shelf CMS? Yes, this worries me too. But if it lives then let's review it then. Note that the translation feature is new (and not finished, I believe). However, this is fairly understandable because no open-source CMS in the world seems to offer this feature, certainly not via .po files. But that's not what's causing difficulties now. -- murrayc@... www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Murray Cumming
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On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 21:54 +0100, Carsten Senger wrote:
> Murray Cumming schrieb: > > On Sun, 2008-10-26 at 18:07 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > [...] > > > 3. Trying to get the structure and content out of the Plone system so I can archive it, > > and then just reorganize the existing gnomweb-wml stuff to match it. > > I have extracted the content from the Data.fs you provided and attached > it. Everything that could be of interest is in structure/en. The > contentobjects are saved in the rfc-822-format. > > If you have other information in a Data.fs you want to get out I can do > that even if we fail. Thank you. That's a huge help to me. > On live.gnome.org are some pages about the overall structure and some > subsections. I can't see if they are up to date. If they aren't I mark > them as outdated. They are probably not. When implementing those ideas in the Plone system, we found that we must revise and simplify it, meaning that the Plone system is the agreed structure. -- murrayc@... www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Thilo Pfennig-6
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Murray Cumming schrieb:
> I think having 5 pages translated, and kept up to date, would be wonderful. > However, I think the entire site would be translated in many languages if > we made it possible. The GNOME translation team are amazing. They seem to > love translating applications, release notes, documentation, anything that > we even vaguely make available for translation. > Although the quality is not very high - and sometimes I think its better to have good content in its original language than a bad or outdated translation. What I try to say is that its not always good to translate. I was very disappointed of the german translation of the 2.24 release notes for example. I think its important to translate some basic pages currently the only page describing GNOME is http://www.gnome.org/about/ - and there I rather think more work should go into the original page(s). One needs to explain what GNOME is - give more screenshots and recorded sessions - so people can see how GNOME works and looks. And then out of the GNOME intro there should be links to pages about some projects like Epiphany, Gnumeric, Abiword - one should also talk about working with OO.org or Firefox on GNOME. I think the real task is to develop content that makes sense and is appealing. Surrounded by a nice design and a good technical platform. > > Note that the translation feature is new (and not finished, I believe). > However, this is fairly understandable because no open-source CMS in the > world seems to offer this feature, certainly not via .po files. But > that's not what's causing difficulties now. > Sure, Drupal uses .po files for translations since ages. That was one of the reasons for selecting Drupal on my own websites. You can import and export po files - so somebody can work on his own Drupal, translate stuff and then export. I never understood why people thought Drupal was bad in i18n stuff. Unless I still do not get the point. See also http://drupal.org/contribute/translations , http://drupal.org/node/275705 Please tell me its not that nobody looked at the actual Drupal core features before dismissing it for not providing translation possibilities? Regards, Thilo _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Claus Schwarm-2
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Hi,
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Thilo Pfennig <tp@...> wrote:
Here's the rejection of Drupal: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2006-October/msg00116.html And here's the decision for Plone: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2006-October/msg00138.html Back then, Drupal wasn't ready, it seems. Cheers, Claus _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Behdad Esfahbod-3
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Murray Cumming wrote:
> > I mean, if someone changed some text on a web page, I want to see that > change, just like we do now in svn or the wiki. That's also necessary to > keep translations up-to-date. Oh, I see. Yes, being able to monitor all changes is pretty important. behdad _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Petr Kovar
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Hi!
Thilo Pfennig <tp@...>, Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:52:20 +0100: > Murray Cumming schrieb: > > I think having 5 pages translated, and kept up to date, would be > > wonderful. However, I think the entire site would be translated in many > > languages if we made it possible. The GNOME translation team are > > amazing. They seem to love translating applications, release notes, > > documentation, anything that we even vaguely make available for > > translation. > > Although the quality is not very high - and sometimes I think its better > to have good content in its original language than a bad or outdated > translation. What I try to say is that its not always good to translate. > I was very disappointed of the german translation of the 2.24 release > notes for example. Your statement regarding the translation quality is quite strong considering it's a pure generalization and nothing more. I wonder whether you base the quality-of-GNOME-translations argument on one of the German translation outputs (the only one you provided, and that you consider to be of substantial significance in relation to other translation [teams'] work), or whether you really have any other arguments to set forth, and thus prove your position. Otherwise, it seems to be quite controversial and, may I say, disrespectful towards translators, whose work, in my humble translator's opinion, is as good and as bad as any other contributions. That being said, and as far as I know, one aim of GNOME is to provide experience of a fully localized environment. And the main GNOME website should be part of it. Regards, Petr Kovar _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Thilo Pfennig-6
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Petr Kovar schrieb:
> Otherwise, it seems to be quite controversial and, may I say, disrespectful > towards translators, whose work, in my humble translator's opinion, is as > good and as bad as any other contributions. > Its obvious. Professional translation is a very complex task. You can not expect a high quality from volunteers who often do not have any training and are often developers who also do translations. In relation to code I guess its often the case that programers aho work on GNOME are professional programmers - not all - but many. The argument that I made was made in a specific context - that it would be desirable to have the whole site translated. The question I rose was in fact if it is better to have a good original english page or rather a not so good translation. So I did not start a thread to disrespect translators. In Moin wiki not all help pages are translated because the translations often do not take up the changes fast enough. So generally there is a translation - but the goal is rather to have a good documentation as one that is outdated, wrong and often of lower quality. How can you say the quality is high? I guess you cant prove the opposit either. So better what makes you think the quality can be high? I am sure people who translate are motivated and do their best - and it often helps greatly, especially on user interfaces and documentation. I did this myself for the german epiphany manual. But I know my shortcomings as well as I see those of other german translators. It does not matter if I say it or if I do not. Everybody can see it. Regards, Thilo -- Thilo Pfennig - PfennigSolutions IT-Beratung- Wiki-Systeme Sandkrug 28 - 24143 Kiel (Germany) http://www.pfennigsolutions.de/ XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Thilo_Pfennig - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tpfennig _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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Re: www.gnome.org
by Thilo Pfennig-6
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Claus Schwarm schrieb:
> > Here's the rejection of Drupal: > > Thanks Claus, I had looked at them some days ago as this threads started. > > Back then, Drupal wasn't ready, it seems. > Actually I think that it was rather not evaluated correctly. Anyway. Regards, Thilo -- Thilo Pfennig - PfennigSolutions IT-Beratung- Wiki-Systeme Sandkrug 28 - 24143 Kiel (Germany) http://www.pfennigsolutions.de/ XING: https://www.xing.com/profile/Thilo_Pfennig - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tpfennig _______________________________________________ gnome-web-list mailing list gnome-web-list@... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list |
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