xmega status

[Paul Thomas-12]

Hello,

I'm new to the list, but I wanted to ask a few questions while my
hardware design is still on paper.

First, it looks like from both the mailing list and the source tree
that programming xmega parts using the jtagmkII via the JTAG interface
is supported. Is that right? Are there any problems/limitations? I saw
one post that said the fuse programming didn't work?

Second, are any other programmers supported? It would be nice to use
something like the USBtinyISP or the AVRISP2 (low cost). I saw this
post (http://blog.frankvh.com/2009/09/22/avr-xmega-and-avrisp-mk2/)
that says the AVRISP2 is supported by the latest avr studio. From the
description it looks like the old ISP was 3-wire SPI whereas the xmega
is only 2-wire (shared data). In the source tree I saw just a few
references to the XMEGA PDI interface, but nothing to suggest it was
supported. Also on the mailing list a couple of people asked about
using the PDI interface, and it looked like it was undocumented from
Atmel and thus unsupported by avrdude? Do I have this right?

Finally, what support is there for using a bootloader with avrdude on
the xmega parts? Looking at this site
(http://pramode.net/2008/01/23/avr-atmega16-bootloader-experiments/)
it looks like the butterfly programming type is just talking to a
bootloader. Has anyone tried something similar with the XMEGAs? Is the
butterfly "type" what I should be investigating?

thanks,
Paul


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[Zoltan Laday]

Paul,

On 10/6/09 7:20 PM, Paul Thomas wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm new to the list, but I wanted to ask a few questions while my
> hardware design is still on paper.
>
> First, it looks like from both the mailing list and the source tree
> that programming xmega parts using the jtagmkII via the JTAG interface
> is supported. Is that right? Are there any problems/limitations? I saw
> one post that said the fuse programming didn't work?
>
>    

Yes, xmega parts are supported using JTAGICEmkII via the JTAG interface.
The xmega support is pretty usable, but not perfect.
I added most of the xmega support. Read functions were tested quite
thoroughly and found to be
working. Memory write functions are also ok. Fuse read is ok, but there
can be problems
writing them. One other known limitation is that the target is not reset
after programming
finishes (so, eg. it starts to execute the newly downloaded code only
after a manual reset).
(This works in AVRStudio in Windows.) PDI is not supported.

> Second, are any other programmers supported? It would be nice to use
> something like the USBtinyISP or the AVRISP2 (low cost). I saw this
> post (http://blog.frankvh.com/2009/09/22/avr-xmega-and-avrisp-mk2/)
> that says the AVRISP2 is supported by the latest avr studio. From the
> description it looks like the old ISP was 3-wire SPI whereas the xmega
> is only 2-wire (shared data). In the source tree I saw just a few
> references to the XMEGA PDI interface, but nothing to suggest it was
> supported. Also on the mailing list a couple of people asked about
> using the PDI interface, and it looked like it was undocumented from
> Atmel and thus unsupported by avrdude? Do I have this right?
>
>    

AFAIK, there is no support for the xmega parts on the AVRISPmkII.
As far as the physical PDI interface is concerned, it is not available
on the AVRISPmkII only, but
it is on the JTAGICEmkII, too.
PDI interface is documented in Atmel literature, so the method of
communication between the
programming tool and the target MCU is known.
As far as avrdude PDI support is concerned, however, this is not relevant.
The real question is if the protocol between the host machine (Mac or
PC, serial or USB) and the programming
tool is supported by the avrdude code. This protocol is different on the
JTAGICEmkII and the AVRISPmkII.
These protocols are documented in Atmel literature, too.
The catch, however, is that this documentation is outdated. I do not
know too much about the AVRISPmkII
documentation, but I had to analyze the protocol thoroughly for the
JTAGICEmkII when I was
adding xmega support. The situation is that the JTAGICEmkII uses
undocumented extensions of the
protocol when dealing with new MCU families like the xmega and the AVR32.
I could add xmega support only by reverse engineering the protocol
extensions.
Reverse engineering means that the serial line or the USB needs to be
sniffed while programming
is performed with the factory supported AVRStudio tool in Windows and
you should make
your best guesses what the undocumented messages do. This situation makes
it difficult to eg. find the culprit of such issues that the target is
not reset after programming.
In the case of the xmega, about 20% of the messages are undocumented.
In the case of the AVR32, it is the other way around, about 80% of the
messages are not documented. This makes AVR32 support very hard or even
impossible.
As far as PDI support for xmega parts on JTAGICEmkII is concerned, is
undocumented,
but it does not seem to be particularly difficult to add support for it.
It will, however,
have a command line interface implication, as the physical interface
selector (JTAG or PDI)
should be added there.

Regards,

Zoltan

> Finally, what support is there for using a bootloader with avrdude on
> the xmega parts? Looking at this site
> (http://pramode.net/2008/01/23/avr-atmega16-bootloader-experiments/)
> it looks like the butterfly programming type is just talking to a
> bootloader. Has anyone tried something similar with the XMEGAs? Is the
> butterfly "type" what I should be investigating?
>
> thanks,
> Paul
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> avrdude-dev mailing list
> avrdude-dev@...
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/avrdude-dev
>    

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[Paul Thomas-12]

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Zoltan Laday <zladay@...> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> On 10/6/09 7:20 PM, Paul Thomas wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm new to the list, but I wanted to ask a few questions while my
>> hardware design is still on paper.
>>
>> First, it looks like from both the mailing list and the source tree
>> that programming xmega parts using the jtagmkII via the JTAG interface
>> is supported. Is that right? Are there any problems/limitations? I saw
>> one post that said the fuse programming didn't work?
>>
>>
>
> Yes, xmega parts are supported using JTAGICEmkII via the JTAG interface.
> The xmega support is pretty usable, but not perfect.
> I added most of the xmega support. Read functions were tested quite
> thoroughly and found to be
> working. Memory write functions are also ok. Fuse read is ok, but there can
> be problems
> writing them. One other known limitation is that the target is not reset
> after programming
> finishes (so, eg. it starts to execute the newly downloaded code only after
> a manual reset).
> (This works in AVRStudio in Windows.) PDI is not supported.
>>
>> Second, are any other programmers supported? It would be nice to use
>> something like the USBtinyISP or the AVRISP2 (low cost). I saw this
>> post (http://blog.frankvh.com/2009/09/22/avr-xmega-and-avrisp-mk2/)
>> that says the AVRISP2 is supported by the latest avr studio. From the
>> description it looks like the old ISP was 3-wire SPI whereas the xmega
>> is only 2-wire (shared data). In the source tree I saw just a few
>> references to the XMEGA PDI interface, but nothing to suggest it was
>> supported. Also on the mailing list a couple of people asked about
>> using the PDI interface, and it looked like it was undocumented from
>> Atmel and thus unsupported by avrdude? Do I have this right?
>>
>>
>
> AFAIK, there is no support for the xmega parts on the AVRISPmkII.
> As far as the physical PDI interface is concerned, it is not available on
> the AVRISPmkII only, but
> it is on the JTAGICEmkII, too.
> PDI interface is documented in Atmel literature, so the method of
> communication between the
> programming tool and the target MCU is known.
> As far as avrdude PDI support is concerned, however, this is not relevant.
> The real question is if the protocol between the host machine (Mac or PC,
> serial or USB) and the programming
> tool is supported by the avrdude code. This protocol is different on the
> JTAGICEmkII and the AVRISPmkII.
> These protocols are documented in Atmel literature, too.
> The catch, however, is that this documentation is outdated. I do not know
> too much about the AVRISPmkII
> documentation, but I had to analyze the protocol thoroughly for the
> JTAGICEmkII when I was
> adding xmega support. The situation is that the JTAGICEmkII uses
> undocumented extensions of the
> protocol when dealing with new MCU families like the xmega and the AVR32.
> I could add xmega support only by reverse engineering the protocol
> extensions.
> Reverse engineering means that the serial line or the USB needs to be
> sniffed while programming
> is performed with the factory supported AVRStudio tool in Windows and you
> should make
> your best guesses what the undocumented messages do. This situation makes
> it difficult to eg. find the culprit of such issues that the target is not
> reset after programming.
> In the case of the xmega, about 20% of the messages are undocumented.
> In the case of the AVR32, it is the other way around, about 80% of the
> messages are not documented. This makes AVR32 support very hard or even
> impossible.
> As far as PDI support for xmega parts on JTAGICEmkII is concerned, is
> undocumented,
> but it does not seem to be particularly difficult to add support for it. It
> will, however,
> have a command line interface implication, as the physical interface
> selector (JTAG or PDI)
> should be added there.
>
> Regards,
>
> Zoltan
>>
>> Finally, what support is there for using a bootloader with avrdude on
>> the xmega parts? Looking at this site
>> (http://pramode.net/2008/01/23/avr-atmega16-bootloader-experiments/)
>> it looks like the butterfly programming type is just talking to a
>> bootloader. Has anyone tried something similar with the XMEGAs? Is the
>> butterfly "type" what I should be investigating?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> avrdude-dev mailing list
>> avrdude-dev@...
>> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/avrdude-dev
>>
>
>

Zoltan,

Thanks for the detailed update. I look forward to using the
JTAGICEmkII with the XMEGA.

Did anyone have any insights into using avrdude with a bootloader
through a standard serial port?

thanks,
Paul


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[Bob Paddock]

> One other known limitation is that the target is not reset
> after programming finishes (so, eg. it starts to execute the newly downloaded code
>only after a manual reset).
> (This works in AVRStudio in Windows.)

I found with my XMega project that in  Studio it did work with 4.16, but when
I upgraded to 4.17, now I have to cycle power.  Something changed
between Studio versions in regards to reset handling, at least on the XMega.

>As far as avrdude PDI support is concerned, however, this is not relevant.
>The real question is if the protocol between the host machine (Mac or PC, serial or >USB) and the programming

Would it be possible to get PDI to work with other interfaces like the
(Pony)-STK200?
That removes most of the problems with undocumented Atmel protocols.


--
http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/
http://www.softwaresafety.net/
http://www.designer-iii.com/
http://www.unusualresearch.com/


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[mrtangent]

On Oct 6, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Zoltan Laday wrote:
> AFAIK, there is no support for the xmega parts on the AVRISPmkII.

I can report success programming the ATxmega128A1 over PDI, with an AVRISPmkII, from Mac OS X with avrdude 5.6 (CrossPack-AVR-20090415).

The trick was to upgrade the AVRISPmkII firmware once, using AVR Studio (and I had to borrow use of a Windows machine to do that).

<http://support.atmel.no/bin/customer?=&action=viewKbEntry&id=683> says:
> JTAGICEmkII, AVRISPmkII and STK600 can be used to Program devices via PDI and JTAGICEmkII to Debug devices via PDI
> The Latest version AVR Studio 4.15 (build 623) has PDI support for AVRISP mkII.

Cheers,

--Dave

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[burli]

avrdude 5.6 works fine with AVRISP mkII and ATxmega128A1. I reported
this a view weeks ago on this list including logfiles and other things.
What happend to them?


David A. Lyons schrieb:

> On Oct 6, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Zoltan Laday wrote:
>  
>> AFAIK, there is no support for the xmega parts on the AVRISPmkII.
>>    
>
> I can report success programming the ATxmega128A1 over PDI, with an AVRISPmkII, from Mac OS X with avrdude 5.6 (CrossPack-AVR-20090415).
>
> The trick was to upgrade the AVRISPmkII firmware once, using AVR Studio (and I had to borrow use of a Windows machine to do that).
>
> <http://support.atmel.no/bin/customer?=&action=viewKbEntry&id=683> says:
>  
>> JTAGICEmkII, AVRISPmkII and STK600 can be used to Program devices via PDI and JTAGICEmkII to Debug devices via PDI
>> The Latest version AVR Studio 4.15 (build 623) has PDI support for AVRISP mkII.
>>    
>
> Cheers,
>
> --Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> avrdude-dev mailing list
> avrdude-dev@...
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/avrdude-dev
>  

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[Zoltan Laday]

On 10/7/09 11:44 AM, Markus Burrer wrote:

> avrdude 5.6 works fine with AVRISP mkII and ATxmega128A1. I reported
> this a view weeks ago on this list including logfiles and other things.
> What happend to them?
>
>
> David A. Lyons schrieb:
>    
>> On Oct 6, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Zoltan Laday wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> AFAIK, there is no support for the xmega parts on the AVRISPmkII.
>>>
>>>        
>>      
>> I can report success programming the ATxmega128A1 over PDI, with an AVRISPmkII, from Mac OS X with avrdude 5.6 (CrossPack-AVR-20090415).
>>
>> The trick was to upgrade the AVRISPmkII firmware once, using AVR Studio (and I had to borrow use of a Windows machine to do that).
>>
>>      

It is a (positive) surprise to me, because when I started adding xmega
support for the JTAGICEmkII,
I saw only some traces of xmega related code in avrdude. I did not think
that xmega support is
complete for at least one part for the AVRISPmkII.
>> <http://support.atmel.no/bin/customer?=&action=viewKbEntry&id=683>  says:
>>
>>      
I was talking about avrdude only in the above statement. I am aware of
this, but I could not test, since I do not have
any other tool than a JTAGICEmkII.

>>> JTAGICEmkII, AVRISPmkII and STK600 can be used to Program devices via PDI and JTAGICEmkII to Debug devices via PDI
>>> The Latest version AVR Studio 4.15 (build 623) has PDI support for AVRISP mkII.
>>>
>>>        
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --Dave
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> avrdude-dev mailing list
>> avrdude-dev@...
>> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/avrdude-dev
>>
>>      
>
>
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>    

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